Tags
Apostles, Catholic Church, choices, Christianity, controversy, mission, sin
The intention today had been for a post following up Neo’s interesting reflections on Julian of Norwich and Christian mysticism, but that will be held over until tomorrow to deal with a topic which some already find irritating – Bosco. One commentator asked bluntly: ‘Why do you entertain this boob?’ and I suppose to postpone one post to write further on this invites, at the least, an answer to the question.
Our good friend Neo gave a part of the answer: ‘he is, in a sense a legacy of free expression taught to us by the Chatelaine, and we tolerate him for that reason as well’. Jessica’s reasons extended further than her commitment to free speech and her desire to spread the love of Christ to all. The type of witness Bosco gives is not at all uncommon, and in engaging in dialogue with him, Jess was not simply reaching out in Christian love to him, she was attempting to do the same to those who hold his views of personal revelation. Quite rightly, she was not willing to dismiss the idea of personal revelation – how could any Christian do that? – but she was also urging him, and I would, to submit that revelation, in humility, to the wisdom of the experience of many generations of Christians.
The first example we have of someone saying that their personal revelation was what mattered, and that revelation cutting across Apostolic testimony, comes very early in the history of the Church. St John’s first and second epistles deal with what we might want to call the first Christian schism. John, the ‘beloved disciple’, taught that Jesus was the pre-existing Word, He was God, and He was with God; but, in a manner we cannot fully comprehend, Jesus, whilst being God, was incarnate as man, and was both God and man. But, even within his own community, there were those who put their own personal revelation before the words of the Apostle, and declared that Jesus was not God come in the flesh (1 John 4:3; 2 John 1:7). A man called Diotrephes seems to have led this movement within the Johnannine community, and that community seems to have fractured around the argument. So, from the beginning, we see that not even the testimony of one who walked with Christ was sufficient to prevail against the pride of an individual who claimed a priority for his personal revelation. Bosco is, thus, simply the lineal descendant of Diotrephes.
Like Diotrephes, Bosco has had a revelation, and like him, is guided, in his own view, into all truth by it. Nowhere does Scripture support the line of argument that Jesus came into the world merely so that, at a later date, the Holy Spirit could visit each of us separately and tell us we are saved; nowhere in Scripture do we see a person saying this. Even St Paul, the one great example of personal revelation, does not march into Jerusalem and tell the Apostles that they are wrong on various things and that his revelation takes precedence. If Paul did not do it, why, one wonders, did Diotrephes and why does Bosco?
Well, there are many spirits in this world, and as John said, we would be wise to test them before crediting all they tell us. As tricks of the Evil One go, what could be better for his purpose than to appear to men and, appealing to their pride as to Adam’s, tell them that if they read God’s book: ‘ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil‘? It worked with Adam, it worked with Diotrephes, and it works with Bosco and those like him. It is our Christian duty to try to bring them back from the brink.
Because of their ignorance of history, men and women like Bosco do not know that the Church has always faced this problem. As early as Irenaeus in the second century, the way to read sacred Scripture was established: exegesis should pay careful attention to context (the Devil hates context, of course, and those influenced by him will tell us it isn’t important); unclear or obscure texts should be interpreted by clearer ones; a non-literal reading of some passages may be warranted (Jesus is not, for example, literally made of wood, and he does not have hinges, neither is he literally a vine). Irenaeus established the Rule of Faith – that is that the true meaning of the Scriptures is the interpretation of the Apostles as presented in the New Testament, and as widely accepted in the main doctrines and teachings of the Church founded by Jesus.
Whether Catholic (of whatever variety) or Orthodox, no Church with Apostolic succession teaches, or has taught, anything like Bosco teaches. The pride of men, the sin of Adam, leads his children to faith in themselves. Knowing this, the great Enemy will indeed visit his children and tell them that with God’s book committed to memory, and with his assurance they are saved, they know all that is needed. This is the latest great trick of Satan, and those of us concerned for the soul of our brother Bosco, and for the souls of others, can only point this out.
But, as our great friend Servus has pointed out in his comment yesterday, combatting that great Enemy has costs for those engaged in it, and the recent history of this place is evidence of that, so let us, brothers and sisters, hold this place in our prayers too, that from the wiles of the enemy we should be protected:
Saint Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle, be our protection against the malice and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him we humbly pray; and do thou, O Prince of the Heavenly host, by the power of God, thrust into hell Satan and all evil spirits who wander through the world for the ruin of souls. Amen. | Sáncte Míchael Archángele, defénde nos in proélio, cóntra nequítiam et insídias diáboli ésto præsídium. Ímperet ílli Déus, súpplices deprecámur: tuque, prínceps milítiæ cæléstis, Sátanam aliósque spíritus malígnos, qui ad perditiónem animárum pervagántur in múndo, divína virtúte, in inférnum detrúde. Ámen |
Amen.
Crux sacra sit mihi lux! Nunquam draco sit mihi dux! (May the holy cross be my light! May the dragon never be my guide!).
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Thank you, my friend. I have done what I can here, but have come to the conclusion it is not just against the forces of this world we are contending; May St Michael protect us.
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A sound conclusion in my mind. I have been here before and lost the round. Perhaps the BVM and St. Michael will do battle for us in this case if we submit ourselves to constant prayer on his behalf. My only warning to all our warriors: keep your emotions under strict control and have confidence in the Lord.
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Good advice my friend. May Our Lady and St Michael aid and protect us all.
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Amen.
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Mary. Poor ol over worked Mary. Why cant she rest in peace?
Cathols have admitted that not all cathols go to heaven. Does Mary have butterfingers?
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That spirit in you sure hates on the mother of Jesus. Do you think that is the Holy Spirit – really?
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If Mary and the CC is no guarantee of salvation, then it is worthless. Jesus is the Door. When He opens a door, no man may shut it.
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Salvation is a process – as St Paul says, those who will be saved work it out in fear and trembling. Your spirit disagrees with St Paul.
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One is saved befor one can work it out. And when one is born again, its not a partial salvation. Your religion binds you to it with these partial salvation scare tactics. It keeps you dependant on the gold and costumes and the cracker god. Its a yoke burdensome to bear. Ill bet you aren’t strong enough to lift all the catholic canon books. Toss the catechism on top of that stack.
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No, I follow what Paul and the Apostles taught; you follow what Diotrephes taught.
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There is no guarantee of salvation outside your own freewill adherence to the guidance provided by God’s Grace. Ignore it at your own peril. The CC and Mary and the Saints and the Scripture can do more than to help you muster the desire and the will power to cooperate with God’s Grace. It is up to you, Bosco, not some magic vision that instantly makes you exempt from the duty to live according to the teachings of Christ and His Church.
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You keep saying what Diotrephes taught. What he taught isn’t in the scripture. There is like two sentences about him.I guess its like the catholic Mary. I have three volumes sent to me personally from good brother Mark Shea, about Mary. Three freakin volumes. if you took everything about Mary in bible,you couldn’t fill a fortune cookie.
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What is there is that he denied that Christ was also God, and he thought e flesh unimportant. this is what scholars call Gnosticism – those who read books know about these things.
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I REAd everyday and I don’t know about that. I don’t care about that stuff.
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I am not surprised the spirit in you turns you away from knowing about itself.
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I read chess book and calculus books. Im trying to get ahead in calc because I avoided it in college. I hated math. Now I read calc every day. To be honest, in involved in astrophysics and advanced calc is needed to understand the data.
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neglect your soul’s needs at your peril – it is what the spirit in you wants.
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Hello Bosco. And there is even less in that Bible about you, who claim to be equal to an Apostle! A fortune cookie indeed. If it wasn’t for that beatiful Mother, you wouldn’t have Jesus. Show some respect. Jesus did. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Mary doesn’t have butterfingers, fallen man and his free will, throw out their salvation for sins of the flesh, immorality of all kinds and sinful actions that are never sincerely repented and absolved. If that were not true, we would all share your assurance that we were saved for we would never sin again. But alas, we do and we need to make restitution, have contrition, seek reconciliation and possess a firm purpose to amend our lives and live in accordance with the Holy Spirit and His Grace to be able to withstand the lure of the world, the flesh and the devil. So what you blame the Mother of God for is your own failing to receive and cooperate with the Grace given to you for your salvation. The Grace given is sure: your response to Grace is not. It is not the fault of God, Mary or the Saints or any of the myriad helps that God has provided, such as the Sacraments, but your refusal to cooperate with God’s Grace. If you go to hell it is because you put yourself there; do not blame it on the ineffectiveness of God’s most gracious dispersal of Divine Grace.
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But alas, we do and we need to make restitution
Are you going to give god something to pay for your sins? Who told you that you can make restitution?
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No God is gracious and has no need of us. We give the only thing we have to give Him, our tears of repentance and our free will by which we pledge to utilize in following Him as best we can: as did Peter.
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Amen. I think, as well, we do the Lord’s work here. I also believe that Our Lady (and yes) St. Michael do protect us in this effort.
Wise words. indeed. keep a cool head and a stalwart heart. And we are very wise to pray for each other and for this place of God as well.
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Oh Mary, protect me. What happens if you wind up in the lake of fire? What happened to Mary? So, you Lutherans worship Mary too?
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neither doth he himself receive the brethren, and forbiddeth them that would, and casteth them out of the church.
This Diotrephes was a false preacher. He wouldn’t receive the saved because they would do the same as I do…expose him. He wasn’t in schism, like the schismers here always say. He never was a Christian. You cathols tolerate me but would love to see me disappear. I expose your beloved religion. All religions. politicians…the AMA, the Justice Dept, the FDA. I expose them all. Darkness hates light.
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You call the light dark and the dark light – that is what we object to. You blaspheme the Lord your God and all His works and those ceremonies and sacraments that He established. That is evil and we pray that you should see how evil it is and recant and seek forgiveness for the persecution and lies that you spread.
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hello, my name is Bosco the Great, and I approve all of my posts.
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LOL!! Bosco the Great! All Hail Bosco the Great! Oh no. You’re a mess, man. God bless. Ginnyfree.
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No, he is you. he denied the words of the Apostle,put his own spin on them and. Insisted he was right – ring any bells?
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Uh, yeah. Sounds like the CC. The apostles told us not to separate ourselves by special dress, like holyman uniforms. And that is the mainstay of the CC, and on top of that, they are called fathers. The CC does everything the bible says not to do, like with their economy of images.
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So, when Jesus says ‘this is my body’, you say it is a cracker, but when he says call no man father, you take it literally. No doubt you called your male parent pater?
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You obviously refer to Matt. 23 where Christ goes to great length to admonish the state of the Scribes and Pharisees of the Old Testament Church. What makes you think that the New Testament Church does not understand the meaning of the hypocrisy of the former? You look to the outside of the cup, yourself Bosco to see if it is clean, and yet you care not about the inside of the cup. You seem likely to be one of those whom Christ was speaking to.
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Good brother Servus, youre drunk!!
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Very mature reply and an admission that you refuse to dialogue like a man.
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I gather that Bosco became ill yesterday and is suffering from a cold or the flu from what he has responded. During this time it would be good to pray for him that all illness, carnal and supernatural be cured.
Vade retro Satana!
Nunquam suade mihi vana!
Sunt mala quae libas.
Ipse venena bibas!
Begone, Satan,
Do not suggest to me thy vanities!
Evil are the things thou offerest,
Drink thou thy own poison!
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Amen, my friend, Amen.
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I have to get up and go check on some property were are refurbishing. People want to view it. Ill address good brother Servus 7 sacs later today. Im full of antihistamines and am doped up.
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Take care – and you remain in our prayers.
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Priez aussi pour la France, cher Chalcédon. N’oubliez pas que Dieu l’a donné beaucoup des hommes honorés par l’Eglise: Saint Martin de Tours, Saint Grégoire de Tours, Saint Irenée, etc.
Priez que la nation française reviendra vers Lui.
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Indeed so, a worthy cause for prayer as well.
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Thanks for yot prayers good friends.
I didn’t have a revelation. As ive said, time and again, I was given a new spirit. You say there is no reference to this. Jesus talked about this new spirit. He said…no one goes up to heaven except he who came down from heaven. The new spirit came down from heaven. Im glad I got it, but I didn’t want it. I wanted to be a regular unsaved rock and roller.
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Led Zeppelin did give us “A Stairway to Heaven”.
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Case in point. 😀
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Which was based on ‘Ragnarrok’ the old Norse legend of the end of the world, and the best piece of rock and roll ever.
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I didn’t know that and will have to do some research now. All I know about Norse legend is Thor and his hammer because we did a play about him in 4th grade. 🙂
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There’s quite a bit out there. In fact I wrote, rather lightly, about it as well, at this link. It’s one of my musical Saturday posts, if I remember, but valid fo all that.
http://nebraskaenergyobserver.wordpress.com/2013/09/30/mjolner-and-bifrost-in-the-modern-world/
Enjoy, we are supposed to as we learn. 🙂
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Thanks for the link Neo. I’m impressed with your breadth of knowledge. It’s all “Greek” to me but I’ll work on it. 🙂
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Age helps, Zeke, I’ve had time to pick up a lot of random information 🙂
Thanks for the follow, as well.
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You have said this many times. But it seems you never say the end of the passage, ‘the Son of Man.’ It comes from John 3:13 “No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.” and then He continues: “And just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him may have eternal life.
Now is that what you take out of context to mean that you have a spirit that came from heaven? How did you become aware that this spirit came from heaven?
Nothing that has ‘being’ was created apart from the Mind of God, Who art in Heaven; even Satan and the Hell God made for Him. But this is not the meaning of the verse. He is speaking of Himself, Bosco, and why He must die on the Cross so that we might have eternal life.
And getting a ‘new spirit’ is the reception of the Holy Ghost (Who also is God) that revives our souls and makes of us a new man if we will only abide by the Grace that this instills: a spirit to follow Christ, suffer with Christ, die with Christ, to be transformed in Christ. This is the power of Baptism in the Holy Spirit.
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Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.
9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?
11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.
12 If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?
13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.
People say I take things out of context. Here jesus is talking about what? Being born again.. No man ascends to heaven unless he came down from heaven, even Christ.
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“No one has ascended into heaven except the one who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.”
Not the quote. zThats not what it says. Now, who do you all say twists the scriptures?
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You. Who is the Son of Man – Jesus. So, he is saying no man has gone to heaven, except for Himself, as He is God and Man.
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If Jesus is the only one going to heaven, you strive in vain.
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Howon earth do you get to that? Jesus is saying no human comes down from heaven, only the Son if Man has done that.
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You see, when it comes to spirit, you cant understand. You need graven images, a golden trinket, a man in a costume, a man called god. This you understand. But being born again from above you don’t understand.
If a man is born from above, he is now from above and came down from above.. Jesus stands at the door and knocks. let him in. Then you will know.
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When it comes to reading, Bosco, I fear you don’t understand English.
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One of my best posts has gone missing. Do you happen to know anything about this, good brother Chalcedon?
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No, but let me look.
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Maybe I pushed the wrong button or accidently hit escape which erases everything, which I do all the time because im in bed holding the keyboard and my finger hits it a lot.
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No, it was all links, the site security thinks they are spam.
Sorry you are still unwell. Have you considered that the spirit in you might feel under attack?
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Of course the spirit in him feels under attack. All of us heathen here, that Holy Spirit feels as if it’s fought a well-worn battle.
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I feel weary. Sometimes I feel I labour in vain. But I remember the words of the Lord…..his words do not come back in vain, but accomplish what they set out to do.
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As your spirit is not God’s, yes, your labours are vain. The followers of Jesus will prevail against your spirit.
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If you say so good brother.
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Can you really see phallic symbols where there are none, and yet not see how you misread this?
Jesus is most certainly not saying that any of us come down from Heaven, he is speaking only of himself, the only man to be God – that is what he means by coming down from heaven; he is talking about himself and the incarnation.
How you think that applies to you or any man is an utter mystery.
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No one goes up to heaven except he who came down. That means, in your evaluation, no one is going to heaven.
Then it says no man goes to heaven….Jesus ,isn’t a man, and you guys say that all the time. if Jesus is talking about himself, hes calling himself a man/ But then later he refers to himself as son of man. Hes talking about men and himself.
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No, that’s not what it says. It says no man came from heaven.
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13And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven.
Its doesn’t say no men have come down from heaven. It says except they came down from heaven. if no men have been born from above, whats it all worth? To the religious, salvation is on your knees befor a costume with a face full of cracker.
To the saved, it is the power of the invisible god.
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‘Except’ in this context means unless – no man save the Son of Man came from Heaven. You can see phallic symbols but not the meaning of God’s word. That should tell you something about the spirit you have.
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Well then no man is going up to heaven. See you in the lake of fire. Ill be the one with the big red nose.
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That is not what it says. Read it again.
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Ive read it. You say no man has come down from heaven. True, the body didn’t come down, but the new spirit it has did come down. Christ isn’t concerned about the flesh. The flesh is a house for the real you….the spirit.
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I have found the comment in spam and unspammed it.
Yes, no one said the Spirit did not some from heaven, you were the one who said that man came down from Heaven.
If Christ was not concerned about our flesh, why the Incarnation, which redeems the flesh and the body? Christ’s body was reincarnated.
Diotrephes did not believe Christ’s flesh mattered – as I say, your spirit is that St John condemns in Diotrephes.
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If you say so. No one cares about that guy. Especially me. He was a Bozo. I hope he got saved later.
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The spirit which guided him, guides you.
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C, is Bosco a docetist? Jesus is both man and God but Bosco says only spirit came down. Does that mean that Bosco believes Jesus is only a spirit being? I’m nervous for Bosco’s spiritual health now.
Also, RSVCE says “No one has ascended into heaven but he who descended from heaven, the Son of man”. It does not say “no man” and it is talking about ascension into Heaven, not descension from Heaven. It says “no one”. And further, it makes an exception.
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Your quote is missing word good brother newenglad. Why don’t you run along and play on the freeway.
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Oh like you would actually know since your Bible is too holy for you to even touch!
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This time you skip the part preceding in John 3:
3 Jesus answered him, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God without being born from above.”[b] 4 Nicodemus said to him, “How can anyone be born after having grown old? Can one enter a second time into the mother’s womb and be born?” 5 Jesus answered, “Very truly, I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God without being born of water and Spirit. 6 What is born of the flesh is flesh, and what is born of the Spirit is spirit.[c] 7 Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born from above.’[e]
How can it be? We are to be ‘born again’ in water and the Spirit. He speaks of Baptism where we receive the Holy Spirit from above. Without it, we are merely flesh. With it, we become Christ’s as we share in the same Spirit.
It was shown when the Holy Spirit came down from heaven and rested on our Lord during His Baptism: Him Who did not need a Baptism. But we needed to see and believe.
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That’s whati keep saying. He gives a new spirit from above. One that knows Jesus. Once you have this spirit from above, now you can go back to heaven. Because you came down from heaven.
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No, you did not come from heaven, none of us did. Where in Scripture does it say we came from heaven. This is the evil spirit talking again.
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If one is born again, where do you suppose this new spirit came from? Wallmart? The new spirit came down from heaven.
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The new Spirit is the Holy Spirit who comes from where you and I don’t, heaven.
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Bosco here is an interesting thought for you to ponder. You claim that you have received the Holy Spirit and by such you came down from Heaven so that now you know Jesus – in fact you said you met him and supped with Him. It just so happens that the Holy Spirit brings with Him certain virtues known as gifts, and fruits. I would assume then that you feel you have these in their fullness and need not cooperate with the Grace given or develop these are they come with the reception of the Spirit you say you possess.
The seven gifts of the Holy Spirit are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord. This is seen in Galatians 11:2 for it is the same Spirit that Christ has as they are united in the Godhead.
The fruits of the Spirit are perfections that the Holy Spirit forms in us as the first fruits of eternal glory. The tradition of the Church lists twelve of them: “charity, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, generosity, gentleness, faithfulness, modesty, self-control, chastity.” This seen in Galatians 5:22-23
Surely the saved have all of these perfected while us poor unsaved folk are still trying to achieve them step by step.
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The Spirit is from Heaven and is in fact the Third Person of the Triune God. That He has given rebirth to our souls doesn’t make the “I” of your ego a person from Heaven. You are still capable of negating the gift of the Holy Spirit. But if you cooperate with this Heavenly Guest of your soul, you most certainly will attain the reward of Heaven. God never negates the use of our gift of freewill. We are not automatically going to heaven because we received the Holy Spirit in Baptism. But it is the only true first step of the process.
If this is what you mean then I accept it. If not, and suspect not, you are saying as you always do that as soon as you receive the Spirit you are saved now and forever no matter what else you do, think, say or believe.
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When one is born again, one cant undo knowing Jesus. Yes, and it is in an instant. One is saved in the twinkling of an eye. You better hope so. If the process you have been taugh of isn’t complete, well, its to the gallows with you.
What does Jesus say at judgement. Its in the bible. He says…..well, you didn’t complete the salvation process…later for you.
Maybe he said….You didn’t bow long and low to Tammuz, I mean Mary graven images…toddleoooo.
or maye he says….well well, you weren’t a member of the catholic church, depart from me you evil doer.
Search the scriptures….don’t believe what I tell you. Look for your selfs. Jesus says…I never KNEW you. That is how men are judged. Good brother Servus seem to thing god is going to checking who is wearing a brown scapular.
No brown scapulars to the left…brown scapulars to the right.
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Then St. Paul was saved as soon as he was struck blind and saw (knew) Jesus. How come he got himself baptized? Was he just pretending to know Jesus or did he fall for the tricks of Tammuz and get himself Baptized into a non-existent church or worse yet into an ‘unsaved religion?’
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Its a outward sing , to be water baptized. Good brother Paul had already met Jesus, but I don’t know of the exact time Paul was born again. My guess is when the brothers layed hands on him and prayed. then later he went and did water baptism. Its just a show. It doesn’t save you. The Christians I know, go do a water baptism after they are born again. To show they are new. Not the other way around.
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So that is what these saved persons we call Apostles did – they engaged in meaningless shows that have no bearing on the salvation of the individual though Christ said that it was necessary. And what it show it was: they Baptized by the thousands all over the known world and continue to do so, uninterrupted, for 2000 years. Guess they are just making a show of these things to get money or fame or to confuse Christians for perpetuity.
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You must then possess the gifts and fruits of the Holy Spirit in complete perfection then. Please read them in my other reply and let me know how all of these are going for you.
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Do not be astonished that I said to you, ‘You[d] must be born from above.’[e]
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How many times do you need to look at the words Bosco. He then explains that we must be born again with water and the Spirit (Baptism). That is being born again – the reception of the Holy Spirit in our souls.
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Born from above. Yes, the baptism is whats needed.
You keep side stepping where you think this new spirit comes from. Plus, the religious think they can get in line to be saved. Good luck with that. Does one get a new spirit and straightway go and bow befor Tammuz? The born again know the good Shepherd. They do not bow the knee to graven images. They can and will do all sorts of other things.
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I side step nothing but now you are starting to change your story about needing to be Baptized.
I not only told you where the Spirit is from I told you He was the Third Person of the Holy Trinity. How much more precise can I make it?
And you know we do not bow to graven images or Tammuz or any other wild-eyed crazy notion that you want to heap on Christ’s Church. I’m sure if you had the same Spirit that entered Paul, Christ would ask you why you are persecuting Him.
Maybe you best be Baptized into the Church as Paul was.
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Thanks for the invite. I know you mean well.
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Or, even as quoted from Newman in the “Newman Lectures” today:
“Lastly, the argument from Scripture is surely quite clear to those who honestly wish direction for practice. CHRIST promised He should be with His Apostles always, as ministers of His religion, even unto the end of the world. In one sense the Apostles were to be alive till He came again; but they all died at the natural time. Does it not follow, that there are those now alive who represent them? Now who were the most probable representatives of them in the generation next their death? They surely, whom they had ordained to succeed them in the ministerial work. If any persons could be said to have CHRIST’S power and presence, and the gifts of ruling and ordaining, of teaching, of binding and loosing, (and comparing together the various Scriptures on the subject, all these seem included in His promise to be with the Church always,) surely those, on whom the Apostles laid their hands, were they…”
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The unsaved religions rely on men and these supposed successors.
The saved are taugh all by the holy ghost as promised.
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If you are misreading God’s book this badly, the spirit you received is of Satan.
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The NT says the saved are taught by the holy ghost. isn’t that true? Doesn’t it say that? The religious just don’t believe in that kind of personal savior. They believe in crackers and costumes and gold.
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The NT also says to test the Spirit against the teaching of the Apostles. Break the habit of a lifetime and read the post. You are Diotrephes.
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I read the post. never heard of good brother Diotrhnese or whoever.
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He’s in that book you claim to have memorised – click on the link.
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Ah yes. I remember the passage but not the name. I don’t commit to memory all the one bit players. Theres lots of them in acts. That Diotrephnes decided he was a holyman. He was acting all nuts. Hell with him. hes just a side note. You forget these are letters to friends and churches.
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Diotrephes claimed he had a revelation which meant he knew better than St John. St John said Jesus was God and man, Diotreohes said the flesh was not important; I can see why your spirit would not want you to dwell on this fact.
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I told you the guy was a fraud. Who cares what he thinks. He was striiring up trouble and forbidding people to gather with the saints. Like the CC does. It tells it flock to stay away from people who claim to be born again. same spirit lives in both.
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No, quite the opposite. He was saying what you say, that there was no Church and everyone knew by personal revelation – look in the mirror, you are Diotrephes – what he preached, you preach.
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Ill give him a second look when I get back.
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And by the Bible those men wrote. Christ founded a church, His followers wrote the book.
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There is no physical organization for the body of Christ.
If someone say, lo, there is Christ, believe it not.
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Jesus and St Paul say otherwise. More proof that the spirit in you hates you.
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Yes there is Bosco, it is the church He founded.
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That’s just Jesus and Paul – Bosco’s spirit tells him otherwise.
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True enough, and sad that it is so.
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That’s a slogan. jesus talks about his seven churches. None of which are at Rome. Sorry bout that.
But he does talk about the beast on seven hills. But he doesn’t call that his church. he calls it a whore. he does describe it. It holds a gold cup in her hands and is arrayed in purple and scarlet. cant get any more specific than that. God tells us the beginning from the end. God is great.
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Hey good brother Neo, are you an agent provocateur for the CC? Are you a member of this church Christ founded? After all, there is only one church. Are you in it?
Lets ask an expert;
Say good brother Chalcedon, is good brother Neo in the church that Christ founded?
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Neo’s church is in schism with the Catholic Church; I thought you knew that? God, and God alone, decides who goes to Heaven.
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Say Neo, your church is in schism. Why do you bash me with the “church Christ founded” when you aren’t even a member of it. have you been tarrying at the Ballantines? maybe, Johnny Walker Black Label?
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Are religions unsaved or are individuals? Did Christ found a Church or not? Is it not spoken of by the Apostles? Did they have priests and presbyters and deacons? Did they foolishly decide to found an ‘unsaved church’ which you speak of? Since what you think is not in the Bible, where do you get such? My Bible has Christ founding a Church and the Apostles and disciples expanding this Church throughout the known world.
To your demons such an idea is frightening. He would rather that you believe in yourself and your presumption of salvation. In that way you might lose your soul without even knowing it.
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Who taught them about the Holy Spirit and how to receive it? Was it men and the successors of those men?
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Our worry, Bosco, is that there are many spirits in this world. The one you have been given does not sound one bit like any of the work of the Holy Spirit.
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Like the master says…how will you believe if I tell you of heavenly things?
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When you so clearly misread what is written, it is clear you have a spirit of untruth, Bosco. Get rid of it.
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Do not flatter yourself that you are telling us of heavenly things. It is Christ and the inspired words of the scriptures that tell us heavenly things and you need to learn how to read them, hear them and respond to them properly.
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I fear the short answer is that when Bosco talks of earthly things he is demonstrably wrong, so there is no reason to believe him when he speaks of heavenly things.
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Sadly, that is very true.
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Bosco,
“Thanks for your prayers good friends.”
I am utterly astounded that you would so willingly and publicly accept the prayers of people who pray to saints and worship idols! I hope you are OK, but this makes one think that you are heavily medicated at this point. 🙂
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God came and died for these people. Their Lord hears them. I believe they are seekers of Christ. Their intentions are noble and they are my friends and I love them as myself.
And yes, im heavily sedated. I cant even get out of bed to go to work. I have sever allergies.
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Bosco has made some good points here and there. Every blog must have some entertainment value as hopefully some of my cartoons provide. He keeps us thinking , infuriated, grinning and astonished and besides we’d miss him.
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Carl, your comments have made me laugh out loud sometimes. I appreciate your sense of humor and look forward to reading what you have to say.
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On the other hand the Rolling Stones gave us a “Symphony for the Devil”.
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Somehow that doesn’t surprise me.
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Carl, pass the popcorn please 🙂
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Thank you Carl. These people say the spirit in me is a demon. That’s what they said about Jesus. There are plenty of sinful things I do and plan to do, but calling the holy ghost a demon is not on that list. The Sheep hear his voice, or know his voice. Those that are not of the sheepfold do not know His voice. I come telling men to open the door to Christ, and I am called possessing a demon. If I came singing the praises of men, like Chrysostome or Jerome or the raging homo Newman, they would receive me.
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Do you actually plan to do sinful things in all consciousness of the fact that it is sinful do so? That is what you just wrote above.
Is that the Spirit of God or the spirit of a demon? You tell me.
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My feet hasteneth to do evil. Yes. Two days ago I asked a young lady to have lunch with me. I am single. My intentions are good, I think.
Oh who am I kidding?
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John Cardinal Newman was not a sodomite but not a few men are possessed of homosexual panic
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Yeah, he only lived with this guy he wrote love letters to. Now they are on top of each other forever.
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They are not love letters, and he lived with him and a dozen other men. I feel sorry for those with dirty minds, to them everything must be dirty.
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What comes to my dirty mind is a priest daisey chain. A dozen men you say? Ill take your word for it good brother.
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your own words speak against you.
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Guys, someone needs to procure an exorcism for Bosco.
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Oh, for cryin out loud, lookee what the devil dragged in. if it isn’t the Satanist himself.
Say good brother newengland, hows it goin? Attend any good black masses lately? ;-D
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Bosco, I am not a Satanist any more. I’m currently a member of the Anglican Church in America striving (as of the moment) at least to be on good standing and working on recovering from a sex addiction. They are Continuing Anglicans in a liturgically High Church setting (seven sacraments, seven councils). Our beliefs are very much like Orthodoxy and Catholicism combined.
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So let me get this straight. You have the Spirit that came down from Heaven and you know Jesus but you would sin (turn your face from God) without fear of losing your salvation even though scripture might find that rather a novel thought.
“Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites, 10 thieves, the greedy, drunkards, revilers, robbers—none of these will inherit the kingdom of God.” __ 1 Corinthians 6:9,10
“Shun immorality. Every other sin which a man commits is outside the body; but the immoral man sins against his own body.” __ 1 Corinthians 6:18
“Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your minds, so that you may discern what is the will of God—what is good and acceptable and perfect.” __ Romans 12:10
There are others. If you knew and loved God and listened to the Holy Spirit you would strive with your might to avoid sin: for the wages of sin is death. But knowing this, you still have the presumption that you will not be shut out from Heaven for your conscious and premeditated sins though you know the teachings of Christ.
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Yeah, I know all this. Thanks.
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So where is your fear and trembling then?
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Jesus sups with me and I with him. Actually. We talk. I have no fear.
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So you have told Jesus that you plan on committing mortal sin by fornicating and He has blessed you and told you not to worry? This is a strange Jesus indeed and not the one that is the Christ, the Son of God.
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There is no place in Scripture where Jesus promises this – further proof of the origin of the spirit you have.
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Are we better Christians than those of the nascent Church?
After a few attempts of correction with a heretic they shunned him.
Titus 3:10
Rom 16:17
2 John 10:11
Phil 3:2
Saint John, famously, fled from a public bath when the heretic Cerinthus (prolly wrong name as this is off the top of my head) was seen inside -the Saint feared the bath house might collapse owing to the evil presence of the heretic.
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A good reminder, Joe. St John’s shunning of Cerinthus did not, any more than his denouncing of Diotrephes did, stop the heresies, and it may rightly be that there is nothing we can do. However, men such as SS Athanasius and Cyril of Alexandria, thought it worth trying their best. Fit to lace neither the laces of any of the above, perhaps we are wrong to struggle against the forces of darkness.
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Take the man at his word. He wants not one thing to do with the One True Religion. He has free will and he has chosen against Jesus Christ. Jesus will deliver unto him what he desires no matter what me and thee say.
To maintain engagement with such a determined man will not turn him from evil.
He rejects what me and there hold dear – The Catholic Faith – and words will not convince him nor get him to stop mocking what me and thee hold dear.
Would you entertain such a character were he to be publicly mocking your wife? What would your wife think of such epicene behavior?
So, man up and shun him while praying to the Holy Ghost that his heart will be softened; clearly, there is nothing to be gained by continued attempts; if he refuses the Grace of the Holy Ghost to repent and convert, what makes y’all think your words are more powerful than the Holy Ghost?
The Bible instructs us to shun heretics after a few attempts.
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Catholic canon says to burn the heretic. Man up, you coward, and call for my execution by fire. Be a real catholic.
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No it doesn’t Bosco. Could the spirit of lies in you direct us towards where the Canon Law says this. Thanking you in advance.
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You freakin better I know I can. ahow come you don’t know? Quiav the Great quoted the canon on burning heretics in this very site about 2 weeks ago. You jive. You know the CC has laws to burn heretics. Don’t try to act all like none of this happened.
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No such provision is provided in current Canon Law. QVO was quoting from the Middle Ages. have you not worked out yet that that demon in you is from the father of lies?
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Is this simply a case of heresy or is something else? If simply a man who is woefully wrong and has been corrected repeatedly that is one thing. But if you have been reading here for a long time there comes a point where one is not sure that this is the problem. He says he received a Spirit. It is our contention that this is an evil spirit. In such a case did the fathers pray for deliverance, exorcise or did they simply abandon the poor soul to the wrath of demons?
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The servant is not above his master. If they hated Me they will hate you.
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Even the Evil One can quote scripture and I would expect him to: though he will not mean what the text actually says or means. If you were Christ’s servant you would have received the Spirit in Baptism and you would seek to belong to this Church He founded: as best as you can find and according to your abilities and your conscience.
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No one hates you. If we did why would we be taking so much time and patience with you?
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Amen C. If nothing else is accomplished here – hopefully he will come to understand that we are concerned for his soul. That is not hate that is an act of love.
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You don’t hate me. You hate my master. You hate his words. Disobedience is built into your religion. Graven images, costume set apart holymen, Fathers by the truckloads, vain repititions. All accompanied by wonderful reasons why it is the best thing in the world to go against the bible.
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Yes, we hate Satan, whose spirit guides you to mangle the words of God and draws you to the lake of fire. Do read the post again.
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I read it 3 times. Im glad you put up with me. Its the only witness of Christ you have in here.
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Or, as most of the Christians here think, you are the one representative of Satan. You will not be able to say at the Last Bosco that you were not warned.
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I have been duly warned.
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You have, and you will be reminded at the Last Judgment – that’s the one your spirit says you won’t have to attend. I do hope your spirit will be there – and no in hell, waiting for you.
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Know ye not that the saints will judge the world?
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We have Bosco, and you are not following Christ – that is our judgment.
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If your DX is accurate, he requires an exorcist not a dialogue
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True, but they are difficult to procure so somehow he will himself have to try to seek help. Not sure how that is done or if dialogue will help: but prayer never fails though he may not respond to the grace and help that God might send to him.
Perhaps we should stop the dialogue and simply seek Divine help and leave things in His hands. I am starting to think there might be some merit to that approach. It is true that there seems to be no end to the same dialogue and we are getting nowhere in convincing him of his errors..
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I second this motion!
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I fully understand, Steve.
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Its going to be really hard to get me to eat a cracker out of some costumes hand. Ill never believe god is inside of that Babylonian golden sun symbol. Ill never subscribe to a religion that has its devotees bowing befor graven images that it provides for them.
The Lord is my shepherd.
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This is my body, said Jesus. this is a cracker, says Satan.
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That was my point.
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:).
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🙂
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In any case, we are men of duty, and we see it as our duty to make the attempt, even at the risk of our souls, which is why we pray for our Lord’s mercy and care.
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The man has a spirit of contention and division and he has driven me from this site. No loss for you but there is for MJ as he thinks the Holy Ghost is instrumental in creating an online synaxis of the faithful but Bosco is too much of a distraction.
Adios
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BB is a little light comic relief to the rest of us. He breaks up the more serious philosophical discussion on the blog. Occasionally, we have to use a two by four between his ears to get his attention. But on the whole a quite, though delude chap.
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Thanks for your contributions, Joe – and God be with you.
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Say good brother Joe
Don’t let the doorknob hit you….where the dog sholda bit you
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MJ, I am sure the door will always remain open for you here.
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Don’t worry too much. I left this site temporarily for the same reasons (around this time last year when I showed up, lol). Most of us have learned to ignore him.
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Well, as far as I can tell from all this dialog is that Bosco accepts some of the Truth of the Catholic Church, but still has a ways to go on other things. For instance, he accepts that Baptism is a Sacrament and that an out pouring of the Holy Spirit accompanies those who are Baptized, but he deviates in that he thinks this sends him back to Heaven from where he claims to have come, this last part being one of his many errors. He also believes that the Church is one, which only leaves three more marks to go. There is hope. And by his Baptism, Bosco is a member of the one Church as is everyone else, so being patient with him is a working of the Spirit. I too will pray for you Bosco and for everyone here and about. In asking for and accepting prayers for others as well as praying for us Bosco, you are assenting to the Communion of the Saints. There are other areas in which I can see things Catholic sneaking into your reasoning Bosco, so keep arguing. BTW, about the Scripture from Mark I mentioned……………..God bless. Ginnyfree.
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Thanks ginny – your help much appreciated. I think you may be able to speak to him in a way I can’t – may the Lord use you to help His servant, Bosco.
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