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Pusey’s advice to communicants applies not just to first communion, but to all Eucharistic feasts.
1. Never prefer anything to reading God’s Word, nor read it quickly because you wish to go to other things. (This would be disrespectful of it and of God.) If you feel yourself inclined to read faster than usual, force yourself to go back to what you have read.
2. Say some little prayer, before you begin reading, (such as the Collect for the Second Sunday in Advent), and try to recollect yourself, Whose book you are taking in hand, that they are God’s words to you, things which the Angels desire to look into, and about your own Eternal life.
3. In reading, read as if you were listening to God speaking to your soul: and use the Psalms when they are either prayer or praise, as your own prayer or praise to God, not as readingthe Psalms only.
4. Try to keep God in your thoughts through the day, recalling from time to time that you are in His Sight, wishing to receive things, pleasant or painful, as being from Him, to do things for Him. Even in such a little thing as taking medicine, pray when you take it that it may do you good: so as to the fresh air, you should receive it, as God’s gift refreshing you; when you say grace at your meals, you should try while taking them, to recollect that the food is His gift to you, and to take it from His Hands: and so as to sleep. So when anything happens, which you especially like, try to unite with your first feeling of joy, an act of thanksgiving to God for it. On the other hand, take anything unpleasant, as His doing, and so patiently, looking to Him. When you are engaged in your daily duties, try not only to do them well, but so as to please Him; in a word, try to put in practice, “I have set God always before me,” and then that other part will be fulfilled too, “He is on my right hand, therefore I shall not fall.”
5. Lift up your thoughts to God at intervals. The Hours will help you to this. You should try to use one first, as best suits; then when you find that you habitually recollect this, another; the prayers need not be long, only try to fix on your mind, what did make that sacred, as the Descent of the Holy Ghost at 9; the Crucifixion at 12; His Death at 3; so as not only to use a prayer then, but to meditate on your Lord and Saviour.
Then, also, the text which you select from your morning Psalms will also be a help, if you use it several times in the day thinking upon God, steadfastly for the time you use it. People use too short ejaculations, i.e. prayers which are, as it were, darted up to God, such of those in the Liturgy, “Lord, have mercy upon us,” or if you are under temptation, “O God, make speed to save me,” or in beginning any duty or work, “Lord help me,” only, however short it is, try to lift up your thoughts earnestly to your Blessed Saviour at God’s Right Hand.
6. Then during the times you are alone, try to meditate for a time upon God. Thus, when you are out of doors, you can generally see the blue sky, and you have heard many things of it connected with God:—how our Lord has ascended thither to prepare a place for us; how God’s mercy encompasses all his Works, as the sky does the earth: how holy Angels and the spirits of the just dwell there: how its purity is an emblem of God’s Holiness, or again, of the brightness of faith.
And so on, as to other things, everything may recall to you the things of God; the dust when driving, how the wicked are driven before the Presence of God; or as it lies, that we must all return to it; only do not let these be mere matters of amusement, but rather pray that you may not be cast out from that Holy Presence, that when you return to the dust, God will have mercy on your soul. So the sea may remind you how God stilleth its raging, and our Lord said, “Peace, be still,” and how He will so say to us in our troubles, if we pray Him.
Now we can just go to Mary for all our needs. She is greater than Jesus.
Pope Francis, with his open-mindedness and more humanist approach to Catholicism reportedly promoted that the Virgin Mary should be at the second Holy Trinity, even putting her at Godhead level.
“Without the Church, we cannot go forward,” the Pope added during his sermon.
Now The End Begins claims Pope Francis’ reflection on the Virgin Mary suggests people’s hope is not Jesus Christ but the Mother Church.
The site claims his sermon somehow indicates a change in the position Jesus holds in the Holy Trinity. Jesus has reportedly been demoted to the third trinity. While the Virgin Mary and the Holy Mother Church, the Roman Catholic Church, takes over his place at the second trinity.
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/566513/20140917/pope-francis-virgin-mary-trinity-church-christ.htm#.VBmTe7l0zct
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You keep citing non Catholic sources which understand what the Pope is saying as much as you do – recall what Scripture says about the blind leading the blind; I do hope you find a way out of that ditch, but at the moment you are digging toward Australia.
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Giving it some thought, im beginning to think the news article is putting words in brother Bergoglios mouth. Im willing to bet he wont declair Mary as part of the trinity, even though catholics treat her as if she was. Cathols cant admit lots of things they do, because they know they are forbidden. So they just say…Oh, we don’t do that. ….as they get up from their knees befor a graven image, they say they don’t bow befor them. heck, everyone is born unsaved. I used to be unsaved.
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That’s a rather feeble way of saying you can’t prove what you say and won’t withdraw it.
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Im citing a news article. I don’t have to prove what they say. id have to as brother Bergoglio if its true.
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Without Mary, there would be no Jesus Christ; without the Church, we cannot go forward“. Bergoglio
Wise words from the pontiff at rome. Your master, the Holy Father. Cept one little pesky fact….Jesus was there in the beginning. He is alpha and omega.
Befor Moses was…I AM.
Looks like Bergoglio is telling a lie. And who believes this lie? Every cathol on earth. They are under orders to believe it. If he lies, he speaks from his father, the father of lies.
1.2 billion. Wide is the road to destruction.
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Which bit of, without there having been a mother there would be no Jesus, are you not following, Bosco? I am sure you understand the mechanics of reproduction, so which part of Mary is Jesus’ mother and without a mother there would be no Jesus is false?
Yes, Jesus was the Word in the beginning with God, but He was not then Incarnate in human form. Can I suggest you re-read your Bible where all these things are set out?
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There was going to be a Mary and Joseph. It was foretold of old. So there is no use asking what if. Jesus made appearances in the flesh several times in the OT. Melchesided was one. . So its mute to ask what if. What are you gonna do? Make a graven image of Mary and bow down befor it, because she was used by god?. baalams donkey was used by god. Put a donkey statue in your roman temple and bow down befor that too. Cant leave out anyone. That’s not fair.
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She cooperated with God – as we all do when we do his will – she was not raped by the Holy Spirit Bosco. No one worships Mary.
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Are you telling me she could have said no thanks? She was having that baby no matter what. Gabe told her she was having it. He didn’t ask he permission. CC folk lore has Mary giving god the OK, and that’s why shes queen of heaven and has all power in heaven. But if she had no choice…what then? Is she a janitor in heaven? Anyway, since when does god need our cooperation? Jonas didn’t want to go to nineva. He headed in the opposite direction. he was going to nineva, like it or not. Mary was having that baby. No one asked her permission. That doesn’t slight Mary in any way. But it wasn’t because she was so wonderful. Its because she wad in the line of David. She could have been a dunderhead, but she was having that baby.
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Yes, I am. UNless you are telling me the Holy Spirit forced himself on her.
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Amen there Bosco! GOD never needs or is waiting for our “cooperation’! Btw, Mary was surely NO “dunderhead”, but always the Mother of the Incarnate Christ! And she was – as all the elect – a chosen vessel, but her vessel carried “that holy thing which shall be born of thee…the Son of God.” (Luke 1: :35, KJV) Glory!
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So, can we get this straight? You are saying Mary had no choice? You are calling the Holy Spirit a rapist and you claim to be a priest???? Really? Do you actually think before you put finger to keyboard?
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For sure, Mary holds a position no other person will ever have. She got to swat god when he acted up.
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@chal… I thought you were done chatting with the old Irishman?
Wow, and you have supposedly read Calvin’s Institutes? And ask such a stupid question, and make such “rhetorical” so-called theological statements, the Holy Spirit as a “rapist”? Goodness, your an idiot! Your only proving my point, that you are very ignorant theologically! And I mean that very honestly, and not just for a blog debate! I guess you also just don’t get Augustine, or the Augustinian, nor certainly the classic Calvinist definition! (Btw, as I have said, I am more of a Neo-Calvinist, and I will let you figure-out what that is?)
Btw, your very lucky we were not in the same room! Such ad hominem would deserve at least, a good face to face Irish tongue lashing! 😉
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You said you agreed with Bosco, who said Mary had no choice. Either you didn’t read what Bosco wrote, or you didn’t read what Bosco wrote. You do seem very stupid.
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@chal… Yes your lucky we are not in the same room! Your sounding now like a real “punk”! And btw, old Bosco made a good reference to Nineveh and Jonah! I guess you missed that one… of course “dunderhead”! lol I could not resist that one! Btw, lighten-up, your really looking nasty and stupid on your own blog! 🙂
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I think you would find you are the fortunate one. If you call people idiots you must expect them to respond in kind. If, as you claim, you are a priest, you disgrace you orders with your attitude.
If you actually have an argument lurking somewhere, do feel free to use it. I expect you will continue to resort to insults. If you are trying to play up to the stereotype Irishman, well done.
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I’m off to lunch here, and to see some sane patients! Perhaps you can cool your jet’s? Remember, this is YOUR blog! Note, I have a wee one myself!
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As I say, if you don’t like the heat, don’t try to turn it up.
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Aye, do YOU need to read Luther! HE would blow you away! Are you man enough to read him?
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Now why would I waste my time reading a heretic when I have St Cyril of Alexandria to read, and St Gregory Nazainzen? You would be better occupied reading them.
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Why read a heretic when you can read Cyril or Gregory. people who bowd befor graven images.
My good brother iris, don’t be so harsh with my good brother Chalcedon. its not his ideas that he believes. hes told what to belive by his beloved religion. That’s the reason why he doesn’t believe what the bible says. He believes the CC.
The OT doesn’t have prophesy that says….God will ask a virgin if she will have the messiah.
It says a virgin shall conceive. The dirty CC lies to its flock. To keep the virgin Mary folk lore alive, it has to deny everything in scripture from page 1 to the last drop.Good brother Chalcedon is true to his faith and believes what they tell him. At least hes a faithful soul. Even if he is backing the wrong horse.
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I remain unclear, Bosco and Robert – are the pair of you saying Mary had no choice? Think very carefully before you respond. A woman who has no choice is a raped woman. if you pair are saying Our Lady had no choice, you are saying God raped her – which is blasphemous.
So, either I am right, and Our Lady had a choice, or you two are saying God gave her no choice: which is it?
Is there are any chance the two of you might, for once, answer a direct question?
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I Bosco, state and declair, that Mary had no choice in the matter. Lets go one better. If any idolatrous Mary worshipper can show me, in scripture, where Mary was given a choice, and asked if she would have this baby….I will go away and never come back. And if you cant, I want you to go into your closet and hang yourself.
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Can we be clear Bosco, so that Robert can also nail his trousers to the same mast?
You are saying Mary had no choice – that is that she was forced against her will by the Holy Ghost?
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I want you all to do a Robin Williams. If you cant hold up your end of the bargain. I Bosco, approve this message. Mary had no choice.
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You still have not clarified my question Bosco – and suicide is a mortal sin.
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Mary was informed she was having the the baby. She didn’t mind. She was proud as punch that the Lord singled her out. She didn’t understand exactly what was going on. remember…she kept these things in her heart. That means she logged them away for the future in hopes to understand them later.
It wasn’t against her will. Anyway, she wasn’t doing anything important anyway. She just lived a mundane day to day existence in that dirt poor chuckle head of a rat hole town.
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So, you agree she cooperated then Bosco? After all, if she hadn’t, there were ways, even in the ancient world, of ending unwanted pregnancies.
I think you just undermined your case.
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Let me remind you of what you said, and always say. You said that I inferred Mary was raped. Then you say it was against her will. I never claimed it was against her will. Ill bet any amount of money that she was worried because she wasn’t married and knew what the neighbors would think. But I am convinced that she trusted god and wasn’t gonna worry much about it. I am also convinced that she was sure she could talk good brother Joseph into going along with her cover story. She was rite. Good brother Joe bought the story. Ill bet he had to think about it for awhile.
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You said Mary did not consent. If she did not consent, then what happened was against her will. Now you have realised the implication of your position you have abandoned it. Why not just admit you hadn’t thought it though?
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It just hit me. Joseph dropped out off the radar. Why? maybe he took off later thinking mary did have an affair…..Just food for though. I, personally would never buy the “im pregnant by the holy ghost” routine
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Reread your Bible – Joseph did indeed think Mary had been unfaithful – until the angel enlightened him.
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I would accuse you of drinking early in the morning, but its evening where you are. Im still in bed. You keep insisting that I or someone says it was against her will.
She was minding her own business when Gabriel walked in and said she was to have a baby by the most high. She wasn’t upset. She said…”if that’s what you want, so be it”
She didn’t say….”hey bub, isn’t there some other lucky lady you could try this on”?
She wasn’t glowing and some holy lady in a nuns outfit like the dirt bag CC always paints her in. She was scratching a living off the land and was just like any other female.
I said Mary did not consent? She was told she was having the baby. Like it or not. She was thrilled. But the CC has some wicked spin on this. The CC says Mary, by her holiness and queenship allowd the holy ghost to do it. This makes her all powerful in heaven and earth and gives her a throne in heaven. The CC forgets that lots of people were faithful men of god. More so than Mary. but that never gets in the way of catholic idolatry. Catholicism is the worship of Diana. many people in the Mideast worshipped Diana. people feel the need for a female deity…some people, that is. Not me, or most of the people I know. So, the CC invents all sorts of wonderful stories about some female. None of which is supported by scripture. Not to worry. The CC has this catechism that trumps the bible.
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You wrote that she did did not cooperate with God – that means she had no choice. Now you have realised how silly that is, you are shuffling around making a noise; duly noted.
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yes, I know the story of the angel that hipped brother Joseph. But that doesn’t mean he discounted it later. truth is, we don’t know what happened to Joe.
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Just as we don’t know, from the Bible, what books are supposed to be in it. We’ll get you crossing the Tiber yet Bosco – once you start to think, you make sense.
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Ill follow the Lam. If he fords the Tiber, ill be rite behind him.
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In which case you will.
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Ah, I finnaly got a non answer form the great and all knowing brother Chalcedon. Not everything is in the bible. Ford explorer manual isn’t in the bible. That’s a handy answer. So, bottom line is, one cant find in scripture that Mary had a choice. That she was informed she would have the baby. Anyway, what book can take “informed” and turn it into a choice? You go to a doctor and he tells you that you have cancer. he doesn’t ask you if you want cancer or not.
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I asked a simple question. If, as you maintain, everything is in the Bible, where does it list its own books? It doesn’t, therefore it is wrong to say everything is in the Bible. In which case, I think your whole methodology just collapsed.
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Somewhere i think, in Timothy it says scripture is good for everything. Scripture doesn’t anywhere say there is more on the way. jesus said it is finished. The plan of salvation is finished. The rest of the NT is just an account of what the first chirstians did. Its up to us to keep it going. keep giving out the good news. That is our reasonable service. The good news isn’t about a queen of heaven or homosexuals like newman. Its that Christ I\has risen and is alive for ever more.
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Yes, but it does not tell you what Scripture is Bosco. So another fail for you my friend.
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Apart from the fact that I’m not even sure what the ‘third trinity’ is (what then is the second Trinity?), this is just utter tosh, and shows how far removed you are from historic, orthodox Christianity.
What you say about Mary’s role as Theotokos also belies common sense – to deny that she is the mother of Jesus Christ, and that there would therefore be no Jesus Christ without her, is just plain fact. To say that this cannot be the case because as the Son of God He existed before all ages is to separate Our Lord’s human nature from His divine nature and to do violence to the central Christian dogma of the Incarnation.
You don’t have to ask for the prayers of the Blessed Virgin, say the rosary or anything like that if you don’t want to, but to deny her role in salvation history, and to deny the Incarnation (for that is essentially what you, and the site you have quoted from, are doing) is both heretical and ahistorical – you are placing yourself not only further outside the limits of orthodoxy, but of reality as well.
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Christmas wouldn’t be the same without Mary. And Joseph. Its a wonderful tale.Marys place in history is sure. But after all, shes a human.It wasn’t Marys power that brought Jesus into the world. He was foretold of old. No one is putting down Mary. Shes a pawn in the game of salvation. Elevating her to some queen of heaven snuffs out your salvation by Christ. A cathol can still ask Jesus for salvation. All is not lost. Jesus came to save all men. Even queen of heaven worshipers. Don’t let this false religion have you bowin at the feet of some female shaped hunk of granite. Leave that to the idolaters. Seek the risen Lord while he may be found.-
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Yes she is a human, and it was God who chose her to be His mother, to play a real and free part in what He was going to do for us. She is no pawn in a game, and neither are any of us, but God does have particular things in mind for particular people, and no role was as special as the one that Our Lady played.
The key issue here is the Incarnation – I don’t think you are taking it seriously. By uniting Himself to a human nature, God was saying in effect that our salvation would be something worked out in time and space, through people and things, not a one-off wave of the divine wand simply declaring everyone ‘saved.’ By becoming man, born of a woman, He inaugurated a process wherein He would lift people out of their sins and restore them to what we were truly intended to me – children of God, sharing in His image and likeness. This cannot be achieved except in and through our earthly lives – salvation IS sanctification.
To return to Mary though, I would highly recommend this online Bible study, as it is deeply biblical. It shows why it is that the vast majority of Christians speak of her as we do, by examination of the language used by the scriptural writers – allusions made to the Old Testament, etc. I don’t expect it to convince you necessarily, but it may help you to see where others are coming from on this:
http://www.salvationhistory.com/studies/courses/online/holy_queen_the_mother_of_god_in_the_word_of_god
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So st. Bisto, I ask again which of the two sects of the Plymouth Brethren do you belong to, the Open or the Exclusive? Its was Darby that rewrote the Bible in your image and likeness.
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Pylmouth breathern? Never heard of the bums.
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One is born again in the twinkling of an eye. Theres no process. You have to ask for it. its a gift, lest any man should boast.
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BOSCO! OMG! We’ve been through this! One is born again by first being baptised THEN being confirmed in the CORRECT Church! (source, Orthodox Study Bible). Since there are MILLIONS of churches claiming to be the “correct” church, it’s possible no one is “born again”.
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St. Bisto, John Nelson Darby, a minister, in the late 1800’s a member of the Plymouth Brethren re-interpreted Revelations with his new Rapture stuff and nonsense. It was he who started this belief system here in the US that you espouse.
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@dbmw: I am the “Darbyist” here, since part of my family name is “Darby”! (Though no relation to J.N.D.) And me great gram was an Irish PB, though of course ‘the Brethren” don’t officially use the title Plymouth Brethren. Btw while were on the subject the very early “Brethren” came somewhat out of the Irish, as my great-gram did always remind me, (she was born in 1882 and died in the mid 60’s. I was about 15?) See too the “Brethren” leader William Kelly. With Darby these two men were the earliest great “Brethren” leaders! And too, there are no “official” ministers, at least in the old Exclusive Brethren. There tend to be some full-time workers, or pastor-teachers with the Open Brethren however. But it just depends upon where it is. It was my providence to have meet old F.F. Bruce in the library in Rylands, in Manchester. I met him after he was retired. He of course was then part of the English (British) Open Brethren. And he was certainly NO theological “Darbyist”!
Btw, I am myself, a most certain Historic Premillennialist, though Post-trib., but too a certain Progressive Dispensationalist! All this came about after I was in Gulf War I, as a British RMC. And later in the latter 90’s I lived and taught in Israel. And yes, I am pro-Israel!
And btw the so-called “Rapture” isn’t new, only the timing thereof! See 2 Thess. 2: 1…”Now we request you, brethren, with regard to the coming (Parousia, Gk.) of our Lord Jesus Christ and OUR GATHERING TOGETHER TO HIM.” (NASB) Of course the latter is the so-called Rapture!
Just a note, but I have preached before at an Open Brethren Conference, and as an Anglican presbyter/minister. I am very familiar with the modern “Brethren”, and somewhat both the Open, and some historic Exclusives. My great-gram was among the old so-called ‘Kelly Brethren’.
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Fr. Robert: Darby was an ordained Anglican Priest in the Church of Ireland 1826.
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So “dbmw”, you were only using Darby’s (JND) good name in the negative it appears!
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Newengalnd, go back to sleep. Who died and left you Bishop Fulton Sheen? get back to your dungeons and dragons.
Gonna come in here and tell me how to get saved. Foul mouthed satan worshiper. hes no diff than the mary worshippers. None of em know the diff between an elephant and an egg.
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At least, unlike you and Robert, he answers questions.
I admire your bluster, and Robert’s, but will press you – are the pair of you saying Mary had no choice? What do we call it when a woman has no choice? Are you saying Mary was raped by God? If so, you are blaspheming; if not, then she had a choice. There is no third option Bosco.
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hey, If the catholic religion wants to make some big deal out of Mary and feed it to its suckers, I mean flock, thats par for the false religion course. You advise that I read scripture….take your own advise. I threw down the gauntlet. Ill never come back if you show me where Mary was given a choice. That’s the deal. lets examine scripture instead of calling me names. Show me where this choice is. otherwise, take a rope and tie it to the clothes rack and do the honorable thing.
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I thought you just agreed she made a choice?
Tell you what, Bosco, when you tell me where, in the Bible, it lists the books of the Bible, I will agree that your Protestant and unscriptural method has a point to it. How about it?
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gat dang, stop the vain jangle. Lets see what scripture says. So far no one has, except me and good brother Irish
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While you are at it, provide the verses from the Bible which tell us what books it consists of. If you can’t do that, it follows that not everything we need to know is in the Bible. If that is so, your whole method is wrong. Best of luck.
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Good brother Chalcedon, just site the verse where Mary was given a choice, or asked if she would have the baby. This would end the debate. Please and thank you.
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I shall do so when you cite the verse where it says that everything is in the Bible – including the names of the books. If you can’t do that, then your method of referring everything to the Bible is an utter failure and you should stop asking silly questions based on a method which can’t even tell you what should be in the Bible.
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My god is a strong god. he got me a book of his words in my hot little hands. A reliable book. I don’t question how it got there. Its there and Jesus is in It. He died and rose again and sits at the right hand of the father. What else is there? Who do I give credit for the bible? Is there a man I should give credit to? The idolatrous and the whoremongers give credit to men. My help is from above.
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Christ and him crucified. What else is there? Whats missing. The OT and NT have the same story. His life, death on the cross and his resurrection and glory. What the devil is missing? Good brother Paul talks about how forbidding to marry is a doctrine of demons. There are little sidelines to warn us about these things. To warn us about false teachings. Any cursory reading of scripture is enough to show Catholicism is straight from hell. And that all religions are hollow. But Catholicism seems to snuff out any hope of salvation while other religions leave the door open. I was prot all my life and it all led up to accepting the Lord. I welcomed the message of the risen Lord. catholics hate the message of a personal savior. They want graven images and costumes and gold and jewels. They want a queen of heaven. A virgin queen. Straight out the jungles of Africa.
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I find it strange that a guy who says that all non-Catholics are heretics, keeps quoting Edward Pusey? It is a common historical knowledge that while Pusey was a leader somewhat in the Oxford movement, and somewhat High Church, he was always quite an Anglican, and differed some with Newman on the so-called Anglo-Catholics. Fact and history!
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Here’s a piece about Pusey’s view of the so-called Real Presence of Christ! Note it is perhaps closer to Luther’s view, which was sacramental/”objective” (though not corporeal), in the Eucharist. Btw Pusey never wanted to go to Rome, but he wanted Rome to recognize his (“Puseyism”) or the so-called idea of High Church Anglicanism.
So tell us, is this kind of Anglican Catholic enough? Or is it just “non-Catholic” heresy?
Edward Bouverie Pusey (1800-1882) was simultaneously one of the most erudite and most polarizing figures in the Church of England in the nineteenth century. Along with John Henry Newman, Pusey was one of the most important leaders of the Oxford Movement, [1] a catholicizing reform movement in the Church of England committed to baptismal regeneration, Christ’s real “objective” (though not corporeal) presence in the Eucharist, auricular confession, robust ascetical theology, Gothic ecclesiastical architecture, and the reform of liturgy and ceremonial according to medieval and ancient precedents. The movement would go on to have immense international influence, and not only in the Anglican communion (See Brown and Nockles). After Newman’s conversion to Roman Catholicism in 1845, Pusey was the leader of the Oxford Movement, later termed “Anglo-Catholicism,” until his death in 1882, to the extent that the English press often referred to the movement as “Puseyism.”
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Puseyism. Ive been accused of that.
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@Bosco: Not to worry, you are NOT a “Puseyist”! 😉 I might be closer there than you? But of course I am NOT a full-blown High Church guy, though I would accept to some degree the term which the Council of Ephesus (431) calls Mary, as the “Theotokos” – God-bearer (the Incarnation).
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I was not aware I, or anyone else had said otherwise. Were you not blinded by your own prejudice, you might have worked out by now why I quote Pusey. I am sure you are bright enough to get there.
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My friends call me a Puseyist, and my girlfriend too. They say that’s all that’s on my small mind.
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Oh my! Where do I go with this? 😉 For a moment I thought I was back with my Royal Marine Commando’s! The only females there are in the Royal Marine Band!
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And this is surely NOT advice before Communion! But this does show the reality of Romans 7: 13-25! 😉
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No, I think they call you a pussy. BIG difference!
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Btw, I am surprised that this statement is allowed to stay-up? We all know NES is a youngster!
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It remains because Jessica’s policy is only to censor bad language. Quite what NES being young has to do with anything is unclear? But then you are often opaque.
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Good brother newengland, up on the naughty step with you. Get up and stay there till I tell you to come down.
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Allowed to stay up? I’m shocked Chalcedon approved my potty mouth. Mother would never do such a thing.
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In her absence I proceed with caution. I am happy to delete it if you wish. C
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And I make a mental mistake in grammar (being on the fly), and its back to the old ad hom attack! Very sad, but very telling! I wonder if any of you will live as long as the old Irishman, and then can type a line still? And btw I am 155lbs at 5’11 still, run everyday… I could perhaps outrun NES? And I know I could you put you in the dust easy chal! And I have said and written more than you can even begin to grasp and seek to answer, it appears? I note you said nothing about the Harrington quote! And while were at it, I hold two earned doctorates, a D.Phil. and a Th.D. How about you?
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Boasting again? What a sad old fellow.
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A D.Phil? From what institution?
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No boast, just history and fact! I worked hard for my education! Again what is yours? Besides an ad hom mouth!
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My doctorate is from Oxford; your own?
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In what before we proceed? I went to the University of Manchester foremost, but also Cambridge! And btw before we start checking each other credentials, we must of course know each others real Sir name? Do you do such on an open blog?
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I am assuming you meant surname. I can be found here
http://www.newmanlectures.co.uk/#newman-lectures
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Yes, I put that Cap up for YOU! 😉 As an old Irishman, and always an RMC! I am not near as formal as you! I hate the “collar:” btw, but I do wear it at the hospital! Also, since I am a retired RMC Intell and Recon officer, I “don’t” put up my personal information on an open blog! As also for family, my son’s are about their own career’s too! Not to mention my American conservatives friends, as NEO, etc. I really am a conservative, both politically and biblically-theologically! I will only discuss my family & personal life with close and trusted friends! But, I will chat too, some, on e-mail, but even there big brother is about! 😉
Now, what is your “focus” in your doctorate… Newman? Note, my Th.D. is in Studies in Romans, especially chapter 7. And my D. Phil., is as I said, about Luther’s Ontology of the Cross.
*Btw, I have been reading Newman for many years also! I still think the best book I have seen (and still have it) is an older book: Newman, the Theologian, The Nature of Belief and Doctrine as Exemplified in His Life and Works, by J.H. Walgrave, O.P. (Geoffrey Chapman, 1960, 378 pages).
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Since this blog had to go private because of the activities of my liberal enemies at my university, I am extremely familiar with the need for caution; it is why none of my personal information occurs here.
The focus of my work is the English Catholic tradition. From whence comes your D.Phil?
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Chalcedon, I don’t think Cambridge has D.Phil.’s or Th.D.’s. I’m beginning to hold as suspect our good friend Fr. Robert’s credentials and I doubt that he’s actually an ordained priest in the Anglican Church either even if he is Evangelical Anglican. He agrees too much with St. Bosco.
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NES – that was me – C – I check the spam under Jessica’s admin password. As I said, I have called him on this.
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Well, since I took the first long haul with Philosophy in general, I worked on the subject as it had to do with the Atonement and Death of Christ, and here of course ontology must come in close focus! Note btw, as I believe in Augustine and John Calvin, that the Death of Christ is really general, but and here it is Sufficient for all, but only Efficient (efficacious) for the Elect!
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Jesus died for all who will receive him; the workings of Grace are known to God alone.
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Yes, and only those who receive Him are regenerate and called of God! For us Reformed, the Holy Scripture reveals God’s own “ordo salutis” : order of salvation, God’s temporal order of causes and effects through which the salvation of the sinner is done; ‘God’s calling, regeneration, adoption, conversion, faith. justification, renovation, sanctification, and perseverance.’ (Romans 8: 16-39) God’s eternal decree in its execution in Time. (Eph. 1: 4-5-6)…”in the beloved”, i.e. ‘In Christ’!
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All of which the Church has always known.
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Aye yes perhaps a few Roman Catholics along the way, like Bernard the Abbot of Clairvaux, and too the Old Ox,Thomas Aquinas to some degree? But thank God especially for Calvin’s Genevan Academy! Messrs, Theodore Beza and Francis Turretin!
*I should mention too Irenaeus of Lyons, but I would not place him strictly under Rome! Btw, he was Premillennial also. 🙂
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As Gaul came under Rome, it is historically inaccurate not to place him under Rome.
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Maybe somewhat historically, but not theologically! The East might have something to say also!
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Just what did the East have to do with Gaul – it came under Rome? Theologically there is no difference between East and West here. Do read some history; it won’t make you wiser, but might make you better informed. But then, unlike you, my doctorate and training are in history, and I have taught it for nearly 40 years.
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So you haven’t noted the East has picked-up on Irenaeus today? See the wee book: St. Irenaeus Of Lyons, On the Apostolic Preaching. (St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, (1997).
Your always lagging mate! 😉
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That they write about him does not mean he is in line with their post-1054 position; another historical and logical fail from you. Keep digging, you’ll soon be in Australia.
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Poor thing – that is simply an edition of his writing, not a book on him. Where was that D.Phil from?
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YOU might want to try “reading” before ya shoot-off your mouth! Ignorance prevails it appears, not to mention the lack of spirituality!
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I have it on my shelves. Your feeble attempt to distract from another piece of patristic ignorance noted; keep digging. Now where was your ‘D.phil’ from? You never did say. Not very good are you?
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And who ordained you?
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Wow! I do think you have finally buried yourself! WE must stop the madness! I.e. Judging each other!
Later mate..
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As I said, neither Manchester nor Cambridge award a D.Phil. Over to you to explain your claim sonny Jim.
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Good brother Irish, how can these people think that it was up to a female whether or not to bring in the messiah? Even scripture says she was told she was having the baby. She wasn’t asked if she would. But these saducees have her giving the OK. Then they say the bible was just kidding when it talks of Jesus brothers and sisters, because Mary is still a virgin….the virgin queen. All catholic holy people are virgins. Nuns. Priests. All virgins. Sex obsessed catholic church. Forbidding to marry.
Its all a gigantic lie because of of them catholic holypeople are getting their rocks off somewhere. But they claim they are celibate.. Excuse me, I have to sneeze…..AAAhhhhhhMarcielchoooooooo.
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So, you cannot answer a direct question, Bosco. Why not?
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Well “theologically” Mary was a chosen-vessel for the Incarnation, and here too she was made quite willing by God’s grace, purpose and glory! This is the Augustinian and Calvinist/Neo-Calvinist position! And here some older Roman Catholic theolog’s fall in!
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So, are you agreeing with Bosco that she had no choice, or with me that she did?
Why is it you and Bosco can’t answer a straight question?
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Well, in case you have not noticed, there is still great mystery in most doctrinal issues! This why I am somewhat “eclectic” on many issues, but here I would agree closer to Bosco, Mary did what she was “called” to do! Thank God she was NOT like Jonah! Note, btw, I am not a friend of Modern or today’s ‘New Calvinism’!
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How hard is it just to say that she cooperated with God.
This is what drove me from Anglicanism – the utter inability to give a straight answer to a straight question. It is not recorded that Jesus and his apostles were ‘eclectic’ – so I stick with their example.
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But the Text never says Mary “cooperated” with God! It says: “Blessed is she who has believed that the Lord would fulfill his promises to her!” (Luke 1: 45) She simply but of course profoundly “believed” in the promises of God! Again, God’s grace, purpose & glory! As we Anglican’s call her: St. Mary the Virgin! And of course all believers are “Saints”! (1 Cor. 1: 2) And note, belief takes “faith”, and faith is itself the “gift: of God! (Eph. 2: 8)
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And the text never says there are 27 books or something called the ‘New Testament’ – and your point therefore is what? Other than to prove your sole scriptura methodology false and unScriptural?
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And btw, old Pusey was about as “eclectic” as one could get! And I count Pusey as one of God’s redeemed! HE was affected by the Thirty-Nine Articles surely!
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Even a cursory read of Pusey’s writing shows he was no such thing. Have you actually read any of Pusey’s Tracts for the Times? By your comments, clearly not.
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Now, you have MOVED off the question of Mary’s belief, to the question of Canon! Let me quote from the Catholic, Wilfrid Harrington, O.P. (A Dominican). “The Greek term “kanon” meant originally a “measuring rod” and then, in a derived sense, a “rule” or “norm.” The Fathers used the word “canon” for the “rule of faith,” and the canon of Scripture was regarded as the written rule of faith. The idea which eventually prevailed was that of a determined collection of writings constituting a rule of faith. Ultimately the canon of Scripture came to mean what we understand today: the collection of “divinely-inspired books” received by the Church and recognized by her as the infallible rule of faith and morals in virtue of their divine origin.” (Page 63,The Canon of Scripture, from the book: Record of Revelation, The Bible, by Wilfrid Harrington, Priory Press, Chicago, Ill.(1965)
We could parse some of this, but the end is the same, the Word of God was “recognized” by the Church as THE Divine Word and Writ of God! Nothing here is said about the pope or papacy! Aye the older Dominicans knew better!
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You seem unable to carry a logical line of thought; perhaps your age? So to help you.
You and Bosco keep saying where does it say that Mary cooperated, as though everything has to be in the Bible. I ask where it says what the Canon is, because, of course, it doesn’t. We know it, as we know Mary cooperated, through Holy Tradition.
There is no charge for this service.
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Ever faithful to the end good brother. A marvelous trait in you.
Now on a more serious note. About 5 days ago, I was lying in bed about 12 at nite watching something online. My computer is on my bed. The screen was the only light in the room. its rite next to my head about a foot away. I notice a tarantula walking in front of the screennext to my pillow. A gigantic spider.Just a little smaller than my hand. I captured it on sticky rat trap paper. But not befor I jumped out of bed like a leapfrog. I might look the same, but ill never be the same.
So, good brother Chalcedon say, just because its not in the bible doesn’t mean its not true. The morning stock report isn’t in the bible, but its true. One would think a matter of such importance as to the savior being born, would have been coverd in scripture. It gives the whole account of the incounter between Mary and gabe. It would be of immense importance if mary didn’t have to agree. If she could have said no thanks. If that is important to the mary folklore, then enjoy it. From there, the
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My point is that your method – which is it has to be in the Bible, is wrong. The Bible does not tell us what is in it, Tradition of the Church does. So for you and Robert to bang away on your man made false and late idea of ‘sola scriptura’ is a waste of time. A methodology which can’t even tell you what is in the book you claim is definitive, is palpable nonsense – surely even you pair can see that?
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If its not in the bible, toss it into the trash, where the bishop of rome can come get it and kiss it and make it CC dogma.
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The books of the Bible are not named in it Bosco. Do try thinking before hitting the keys.
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Ok, im open. So where is the rest of the stuff that is scripture but not in the bible? Where can I find this extra scripture, and what does it add to the plan of salvation? Thanks in advance
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Poor Bosco. We know the contents of Scripture from the same place we know the Trinity and Mary’s virginity – the Church. Come join uscBosco.
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I love it! When you get near 65, ‘you only wish you could have my looks and brains’! My wife’s words just now! And my wife is also a beauty, both inside and out! 😉
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In which case, what is your excuse?
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Good brothe Chalcedon says that whats not in the bible is in the CC. So, good brother Irish, we have no choice but to look into joining the CC to find answers to our questions. I used to go to Christmas mass with my catholic friends. I thought it was more godly than my prot sterile church.
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Many RC friends take communion every day. I doubt they go through all Pusey’s contemplative meditation each day. His steps take intense preparation to approach the sacrament. This is why the Protestant quarterly communion service make more sense.
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I agree Carl – it is a very modern idea that one partakes every week.
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Oh yes, I have read Pusey very much! I actually like him, but only in places. Btw, where is the doctrine or teaching of the “uno mystica” in your faith and belief? All I see is the Dogma of the Roman Papacy! Talk about late and modern!
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In which case, you comment that he is ‘eclectic’ makes no sense – a bit like your question.
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yeah. The CC has Mary floating up to heaven. This idea was thought up in 1850. Talk about new.
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You’ll find it in the Church Fathers, where you’ll find the books of the Bible before there was one book – so come join the church and stop this foolish prattle.
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Do you know what “uno mystica” means? It does appear NOT!
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Do try not to be silly. It is your question which made no sense.
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That was 1950 actually Bosco! 😉 i.e. the assumption! Put up by the pope then! And now it is an absolute in the Catholic Church Dogma!
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The idea of the Dormition is much older – do those books just occupy space, or do you read them?
Having shown your sola scriptura nonsense for what it is, why do you keep using it? You sound like a broken record.
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YOUR actually not that well read are you chal! Do you know any scholasticism? Note, the Reformed have a whole area there… Protestant Scholasticism! Check out Richard Muller!
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Well read enough to write ‘you’re’ not your. What a joke you are.
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Good brother Chalcedon does know a lot of earthly things. So do I. But he is faithful to his religion, which is commendable. Cant blasme him for that. Good brother Paul was a zelot for his sect also. That made him a good witness for Christ, once he met him.
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Chalcedon, should you inform these poor Proties that the Dormition of Mary was spoken of by texts much earlier and that is what our good man Pope Pius XII was referring to when he established it as a doctrine? Bl. Mary of Agreda much earlier defended our Lady’s dormition in the 17th century and the Orthodox iconography dates as far back as the 6th century on this issue.
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I did, but I doubt they will read, and if they do, comprehension takes second place to assertion.
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Wanna talk about new, the pope might make Mary the fourth of the trinity. Then we catholics don’t have to hide prom those hell bound pesky heretic prots. Opps, im jumping the gun. I have to go register with my local CC befor I start to be catholic. Sorry.
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As Jess would say, don’t be naughty.
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The bottom line is, everyone is born unsaved. Some idiot friend of mine told me jesus and his boys used to get drunk at nite. I believed him. made sense because they all drank wine. But I was unsaved. Now I know better. When my friends in here get saved, they will also toss the unbiblical stuff. Its no crime being unsaved, but just don’t die unsaved.
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The best place to find salvation is not in your head, but in the church Jesus founded.
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I am flatterd that you invite me into where you believe salvation is. You will make a great soldier for the Lord.
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I can do no other Bosco. The Lord alone decides who is saved – and I hope you are in that throng.
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I used to wonder when will someone find the grave of jesus. People were looking for it. They just now found Richard the great. I know know he rose from the dead.
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No, they found the grave of Richard III – and he was still dead 🙂
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I didn’t say that rite. I meant I know Jesus rose from the dead so there is no grave of his, except the empty one.
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Ah, I see. God be with you Bosco. I think wherever you are, your love for Jesus will save you – bless you.
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maybe I should look into joining the catholic church. its members are very convinced Christ is there in person. maybe theres something to it.
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He is Bosco. This is his body, given for you – and there with us in church – a great and wonderful gift to his children.
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I got to put my waders on, it is getting so deep in/on here! Respect mates, let us be after God’s Word and Truth! Biblical dialogue, I know this just might be hard for some Catholics!
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Such comments are unworthy of anyone claiming to be a Christian.
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Ok, ill stop by my local catholic church while im out today. Im not working today because im tired of working everyday. Im gonna go get a pastrami and fries and a soda combo.
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Do that, dear Bosco – and go with God.
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Hey , don’t slight catholics. I just might be one of them by nitefall.
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Aside all the BS, let us remember to pray for dear Jessica! Now I am gonna chase me wife around! 😉
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You dirty old sod.
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Men of god should be celibate.
Thank you mary.
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Chalcedon, it seems that our good friend Bosco is playing Catholic again and has turned on our good friend Fr. Robert. Humourously, this demonstrates the fragile alliance that hereticks have with each other.
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I went to my local catholic temple and got signed up. Now you can no longer call me a heretic.
Thank you Mary, fourth part of trinity.
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Your last sentence suggests the first one may not be strictly factual 🙂
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Oh saints be with us, I know it must be hard to believe, oh ye doubting Thomas.
Thank you Mary, for standing at the foot of the cross and smiling and waving while jesus died a horrible death. You participated in my salvation. You are queen of heaven.
Thank you Mary.
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Tut, tut, Bosco. By their fruits shall ye know them.
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Yes I caught that too. You’re not your. It takes a particular type of intelligence to mix pronouns and verbs.
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Quite so 🙂
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