This morning’s news brought something that really counts as news – a Minister has resigned from the Government on a matter of principle – yes, news indeed. The Minister is the first Muslim woman to sit in a British Cabinet, Baroness Warsi. As a Minister of State at the Foreign Office with special responsibility for the UN and the Court of Human Rights, she felt that the policy and the language hed by the Government over the situation in Gaza was ‘morally indefensible’. The reaction has been interesting. Those who disliked her from the start, seeing her as a sop by Mr Cameron to political correctness, have been delighted. To this observer, not having supported her position on Gaza, there is something deeply disturbing and distasteful about some of the reactions to her action, with comments being made on her religion, her gender and her status as an unelected peer; it must come as a shock to some to realise that there is an unelected House and that members of it form the Government too, but it seems only to have become an issue with this Muslim woman. Some on Twitter (and I shall not link, you only need to go to #warsi) break that code and are explicit about the racist and sexist agenda it is designed to conceal; that is to their shame. In a democracy, if we lose mutual respect, we lose everything. Democracies survive because of compromise and mutual respect; if that is not there, then nothing stands between minorities and the tyranny of the majority. Seldom having held a popular opinion, I perhaps feel this more strongly than some. That a Minister should have resigned on a point of principle is a good thing for democracy, and should be welcomed, not with sarcasm and juvenile point-scoring (anyone who can find a point to score here needs to get out more), but with relief as a sign that not all Ministers wish to hang on to office regardless. Perhaps the fact that it should take a Muslim woman to demonstrate this makes some feel uncomfortable; if so, they might ponder on why.
On the issue of Gaza itself, opinion is totally polarised, which is why progress is impossible. It is easy (which is why it is done so much) to divide by instinctive or tribal loyalty: it is the fault of Hamas for attacking Israel, and for having their weapons in compounds where children are to be found; it is the fault of Israel for using overwhelming force against civilians; yes, I think it is – that is I think both views are correct. There are grave faults on both sides. It is easy to say Israel should negotiate, but when Hamas wants to destroy it, where is the compromise position? Just what is there to be negotiated? On the other hand, I doubt there is anyone who can view the pictures of the suffering in Gaza without feeling outraged; it is easier to blame Israel for the damage inflicted than Hamas for provoking it.
Israel is the creation of a particular time and mood. In the aftermath of the holocaust, Zionism seemed to have an answer which would both assuage the consciences of the West and deal with the problem of displaced Jewry – the creation of a State of Israel. At that point no one much worried about the Arabs. Their territories had been parcelled up and divided out at the Sevres peace conference, and in some senses, the creation of Israel was the final act of that Western-created drama. in 1948 the Arabs would not accept the UN decision, and Israel established itself regardless. One can do many things with a sword, but sitting on it is seldom a good long-term prospect. But no one should underestimate the problem facing Israel, and by proxy, those who have supported it. What all the wise men in think-tanks said would never happen – that is that Islam would become a factor of major importance – has happened. From Algeria in the west, through to Pakistan in the east, militant Islam is on the march; anyone who imagines that it will want to find a compromise which allows Israel to exist, is wilfully deluding themselves.
What is, perhaps, also worth remarking about Lady Warsi’s resignation is that, apparently, there is a Government policy over which to resign. For most of us, that policy appears to be equal parts vacillation, rhetorical nothings and the deliberate sticking of heads into sand. In the meantime, the Christians of Mosul are still in retreat, and the forces of ISIS have made strategic gains in Kurdistan. It would be too much to hope that someone would resign over this inaction, I suppose.
At this point in history, I’m not concerned with how Israel came into being or what the neighbouring states thought, that’s water under the bridge.
When Hitler, through Herman the German, blitzed London and killed hundreds if not thousands of English children, what was our response, did we sit on our hands….no we bombed Berlin. We didn’t give them any warning as the Israelis have done, we just bombed them.
Hamas has indiscriminately fired thousands rockets into Israel and blamed Israel for assault on weapons stashed in schools,killing children used as hostages.
So now, as the result of this deliberate chicanery, the true politically correct anti-Semitic colours of England and Europe show their ugly heads. Shame on you!!!
Israel should do what needs to be done to protect their sovereignty. The rest of the world can take a flying leap…
Also, I have no problem with what happened to Hamburg and Dresden in WWII. If you only read The Slaughterhouse Five you have no idea of what really was behind that raid. I saw the result of the Hamburg raids. They basically destroyed the Hamburgensiens ability to build the machines to fight.
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While understandable David, where would that get Israel? If it loses support from the West, it will not survive. Gaza is not Nazi Germany, and treating it as though it were is only going to inflame an already toxic situation.
Israel’s current methods of protecting its sovereignty will work in the short term; in the long term they could bring disaster to it. It has to coexist in a region where radical Islam is on the rise, and whilst its opponents can afford to lose any number of wars, Israel cannot afford to lose even one.
I don’t know why you think Europe’s political position is anti-Semitic, or what the evidence is that its politicians are motivated that way. The perennially crying ‘anti-semitic’ when Israel is criticised is, I fear, lessening the effect of that term.
As the most recent account of the Hamburg raid, by Richard Overy shows, the bombing achieved very little – as Nazi records show. Indeed, the strategic bombing offensive achieved very little for a great deal of investment. You may not agree, but Overy’s book is based on research in British and German archives across a decade and is the most comprehensive account we are likely to have.
At some point Israel is going to have to talk to Hamas. The only question is on what terms?
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I disagree, Israel has nothing/everything to lose, if it loses the support of the West then the Caliphate spreads and if it talks to Hamas it loses and the Caliphate spreads. If the West abandons Israel, it disappears, it is abandoned because of the underlying antisemitism just under the surface throughout Europe. Hell, they don’t even give a sh-t about the Iraqi Christians, except the French.
There was in both cases just name one aspect of both raids the psychological message sent to the Russians, “Don’t Tread On Me!” In Dresden there were a number of defense plants one of which produced the cockpit for the ME109. There was also the disruption of the German Army fleeing West. In Hamburg there was a square mile auf der Peute of workers homes flattened. I worked for the Norddeutsche Affinerie AG in ’53.
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I should have thought if Israel disappeared that would be an awful lot to lose?
The Russians clearly missed any message sent to them by Dresden or Hiroshima – as a study of their borders in 1945 and 1948 shows.
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I’m afraid that David thinks that for the exact reason that I do as well. That is what the evidence shows, from cries in Germany to ‘Gas the Jews’ on. We also see it in the bias of all European media. Now granted that the noise is not being made by native, mostly. In Germany it’s Turks, in France, Algerians, and in the UK, Northern Indians and likely some Arabs, but it is what is being reported.
The conclusion that we have drawn is that Israel’s position is very similar to the UK in 1940, standing alone, but this time with the lonely support of the American people, although not the government.
I think the UK is not as bad as the rest of Europe in this, although the Media, and especially the BBC is lying worse than our media about it.
In almost all of the circles I move in here, the advice for Israel is to “Make the rubble bounce”. Election have consequences, after all, and that would be a good reason not to elect a terrorist government.
Dead men, even those hiding behind women and children, set no bombs, and fire no rockets.
And does Israel need the West? It seems that lines are being redrawn placing Israel, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia, with the tacit (for now) support of America in opposition to Iran. Europe has made itself ineffectual to the point that it cannot defend itself (UK excluded, obviously) so why are we paying it any mind in this scenario. Iran is the overarching problem for Israel, and its group and the US as well.
Yes, many of the strategic raids were ineffectual, even our more targeted ones. The other half of that story is that on 06 JUN 44 the air opposition in Normandy was ineffectual, if that had not been so, France would be speaking German now.
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It is necessary, I think, to draw a clear distinction between what individuals in demonstrations shout, and what Ministers do; I have seen no evidence to suggest a connection. I am also unclear that there is any unbiased media coverage of this one; the BBC gets criticised by friends of Israel and friends of Hamas.
Israel can certainly make the rubble bounce, but quite what that will achieve other than to create yet another generation of Palestinians devoted to destroying Israel is unclear. Unless someone is proposing to eliminate all the Palestinians, and no one is, then as fast as you kill one lot, another lot will spring up. Israel cannot win this war on the battlefield. It has won (in the last case just) every war it has fought; but still it has not produced peace.
Our intervention in the region has helped radicalise a Muslim fundamentalism which makes even Hamas look reasonable. Israel now has to cope with that too.
I cannot see any conceivable US government, or our own here, putting boots on the ground in that region; Bush and Blair have done for that option.
The only options are ones we don’t want to take. There is only one other army in that region capable of fighting ISIS – Assad’s. We stand at a point not dissimilar to the one Churchill was at on 21 June 1941 – if Hitler invaded hell, etc.
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I agree on Assad. I don’t completely disagree on the Palestinians either, but one cannot sit passively and let them fire missiles either.
Nor do I see our troops in the region, we rarely go back once we have run away from victory, as we did here, as in Vietnam. Interesting note, something like 75% of Vietnamese now consider the US their strongest ally.
The thing is, I see little connection between Hamas and Assad, Egypt, Saudi arabia et al (I hope). In the 1940s Germany was the center of gravity, now it is ISIS perhaps, and/ or Iran. But like Japan we also have to keep China somewhat in check. How we do all that, I have no clue. We need israel, and our ME partners seemingly agree, for now anyway.
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You’ve prompted me to a second, and I think, more difficult posting, which will be up soonish.
No one would propose letting Hamas go unpunished, but that is where, whether we like it or not, the media and the politicians here will major on the issue of proportionality. Hamas knows this, and that is no doubt why it stations some of its rockets where it does – in schools and hospitals. Israel has been sucked into a game plan Hamas wants – it knows the MSM will blame those who kill children, not those who put them in harm’s way in the first place.
I become increasingly unclear who our ‘partners’ there are. The Saudis are up to their ears in this. Most of the 9/11 bombers had Saudi passports, and the Saudis support Wahhabite Islam. I’d trust them as far as I could throw them.
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I know, and I suspect that is why we cling hard to Israel, they are the only ones around that we really think we can trust.
If I’m representative (doubtful) what we should do is this. Achieve complete energy independence (we’re close now in North America, and could take Europe with us) support Israel, and pretty much let the rest blow each other up. We have some friends, UK, Israel, the rest of the Anglosphere, perhaps even including India, other than that at most, interests, and not worth blood, maybe a bit (but only a bit) of treasure.
I’m looking forward to your next. I hope you’ve better ideas than I do.
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That’s tempting, and should certainly be part of any strategy, but Europe is too dependent on Russia gas.
The next one will be up in just under an hour.
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From what I know of European prices, we (and especially Canada) should be able to sell ours there at the same price, we’re flaring immense quantities in the Bakken.
Last I looked, your prices are roughly triple ours.
And remember, Russia has oil and gas, other than poorly constructed, obsolete military equipment , that’s all they got. They need you at least as much as you need them.
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Very true, and from the British point of view not too much of a worry – but we have to remember the Germans.
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Indeed, we do. We can cover all Europe on gas, if we have to, but if the Germans insist on trying 1939 again in reverse (short form there, I know its more complex) there a limit to what we can do.
But for us, Europe is increasingly becoming an interest, not a friend. That economy is not all that much smaller than ours, it’s time and past time for them to defend themselves. And for you to rejoin the English speaking world, where your friends are. Your upper classes had there French fling, time to come home.
Must have been weird watching those last trains though, just before Barbarossa executed. 🙂
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Our ruling elite seems paralysed by something or other, that’s for sure.
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They surely do seem to be. Part of it, here anyway, seems to be that they actually believe words matter, as opposed to deeds. Seems endemic, at least with our politicians, lately. It’s surely better to “jaw, jaw than to war, war” But if one will not do the latter under any provocation, one might as well not bother with the former either.
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They seem to draw no connection between words and deeds, that’s for sure.
Geoffrey kindly let me hog his spot today, but normality will return on the morrow 🙂
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I will welcome it, but sometimes the topical needs to take the priority. 🙂
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GRSS is such a good sport 🙂
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He is that, an outstanding one, in fact. 🙂
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Very much so. I’m not sure I could take this pace every day 🙂
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I can’t. I can do one, most days, and very occasionally a second, although I often cheat on that with a reblog. 🙂
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I don’t blame you. I don’t know how Geoffrey does it 🙂
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Nor do I. He’s the best I know at this. 🙂
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We’d best stop – don’t want to make him blush 🙂
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True, it’s not nearly as fetching on a curmudgeon. 🙂
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Very true – though I am not sure he’d blush easily 🙂
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That likely is doubtful 🙂
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C, David, & NEO, thanks for a good discussion on topic. Lots of good points. C, seems to me you have got to be a libra, your sense of balance, at times, obscures you common sense. The BBC in my opinion is anti-Israel from start to finish. And, no, Israel should not talk to Hamas. David & NEO, I agreed, Israel should allow the residents of Gaza two choices. Vote to throw Hamas out or move to Egypt, and quickly.
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Steve, what worries me here is that this assumes something we know from experience will not happen. Offer the Palestinians that choice and what? Egypt will not take them and they will not reject Hamas; what then?
Israel cannot win this struggle just by armed force. It is now taking to Hamas, why? It has no choice. Messy thing democracy. Most Gazans support Hamas. Or do we do democracy only when we get the result we want?
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C, if they don’t want the choices, then Israel must reoccupy Gaza. Armed force is the only way they can win. Their neighbor has proven that they want to kill Israel, over and over, and over. That neighbor must be killed. This is not two bullies fighting over lunch money, but war. I know this is radical in this day and time. America has lost every war we have been in since WWII because we would not do what it takes to win. (except Kuwait) I know, then they will have to do the same on the West Bank. So be it. The US and the rest of Europe should support this effort, in others words, get off their ass.
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They moved out of Gaza because occupying it would not work; what has changed for the better that doing it would now work? This is not a war Israel can win by killing; apart from anything else there are too many Muslims in the Middle East fir that.
Israel’s current actions have effectively ruled out Europe offering any help. Quite how long the US tax payer will carry on being willing to carry the burden of supporting Israel, who can say?
Only negotiations will bring anything like even a cease-fire, which is why Israel is now negotiating.
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C, your option assures the destruction of Israel.
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C, since you may be “taking off” after many days at the helm, I want to take this opportunity to say what a very wise man once told me; you may be right! There are many wiser voices than mine, of which these are two:
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2014/08/04/how_to_fix_it_jimmy_carter_mary_robinson_israel_palestine_gaza_hamas?wp_login_redire
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/384581/hitler-was-right-rich-lowry
Mr. Carter wants UN types to control Israel’s borders. Since these UN types are already hiding missiles and tunnels, this seems far fetched to me. Mr. Lowry brings to light Europe’s increasing anti-Semitism. Muslim youth are being paid to protest and terrorize the Jews. You have been screaming that ISIS needs to be stopped. The way to accomplish this is for the world to support Israel and stop, no ANNIHILATE Hamas in Gaza, Hezbollah in the West Bank & Lebanon, & ISIS wherever they are at that time. You see, they all want & WILL destroy Israel if they are not stopped. Democracy in Gaza? Palestinians lose their lives if they don’t fall in line. Who do you think controls the payrolls in Gaza?
On a lighter note, Twitter? I can’t keep up with radio, TV, and the internet, and you want me to add another medium? Wow.
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Steve, as near as I can tell, Mr. Carter went dangerously senile about the time the airliners crossed out of Iranian airspace. Anything he says is best ignored, although occasionally it can be useful to listen to him (especially if he agrees with Joe Biden) and do the diametrically opposite.
Lowry has a point but I think in large measure those demonstrators got out of control of their handlers-not, mind, that it is not very troubling, but C is right, it is not a government policy.
Unfortunately, while I don’t exactly disagree with with what you say in the ME, I don’t think it can be done, only the US/UK/Anglosphere could even attempt it, and that with Russia holding the ring. And then we would have to make sure that no reports got out, and in an age of Facebook/Twitter that will not happen. That leaves only one way, turning it all into a sheet of glass, and that is several bridges, I think, too far.
That’s why I think we need to give Israel a free hand to defend themselves (within common sense guidelines, which they well know). Develop our own energy, and let the rest settle back into the 7th century. Nobody can make us let them immigrate.
I feel sorry for many of their common people, who no doubt want to modernise but a hundred years of this nonsense is quite enough, and now we can see a way out.
C. is also right that Russia should be our natural ally in this, and they may well come around, if we ever get serious about it. They are, and always have been, rational actors looking out for themselves, nothing has changed there.
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NEO, thanks for your thoughts. I hope and pray I’m wrong, but I don’t see them stopping unless we cross those bridges!
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Steve, I think Neo’s answer is an excellent one. The anti-semitism is there, but is not what is motivating any Government.
There is no way of annihilating Hamas or ISIS, much though in many ways that would be a desirable outcome. Hamas has to see, as I think it is beginning to see, that it is not going to get what it wants at all, and it is not getting anywhere at all by its current tactics.
ISIS needs stopping, but the worst thing anyone could do would be to suggest Israel does that. The Arabs already see it as a ‘crusader state’; for it to adopt that role would be fatal to it, and, incidentally, to the Kurdish Christians,
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C, again, you may be correct. But your assumption that Radical Islam has intelligent, cultured, & learned leaders is faulty. Their only aim is to eradicate all the Jews and the decadent West. I return to a comment made by Servus a few days ago about proportionality. You want to look at a current situation and find one small step to move in the right direction. But you don’t fight a raging wild fire by hoping for the wind to change. Chamberlain’s appeasement of Germany, Kissinger’s détente in Vietnam, and the corrupt U.N.’s current answer of sending blue hats to every conflict, who when they arrive command no respect, does nothing.
I read today about immigrants in France making their way to Calais, desperately trying to enter Britain. The whole world’s immigrants, for whatever reason, see America & Britain as their salvation because we are civilized and humanitarian. Radical Islam looks and laughs and uses this to increase their population in our countries so as to gain political influence.
They I look around the civilized world and see only one leader willing to fight the wild fire, Benjamin Netanyahu.
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I’m starting from the assumption that if Israel continues to attack Gaza as it has been, it will lose much of the public support which it needs; to judge by its own acts in the last two days, it looks as though Netanyahu realises this.
I’m assuming nothing about the Hamas leaders, except that they know they have managed to weaken Israeli’s standing in the world. Israel cannot defeat Hamas by the use of force, any more than it could defeat the PLO that way.
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Steve, not to belabor the point but, proportionality is part of the Law of War. It’s flexible to be sure but it is part of it. presumably it is to stop what the navy used to call “swatting flies with the main battery”. The best explanation of it i have seen lately is here.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/volokh-conspiracy/wp/2014/08/06/laurie-blank-follow-up-on-gaza-proportionality-and-the-law-of-war/
Although I would admit that Shakespeare may have had the proper idea 🙂
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NEO, Seems to me if this “Law of War” is been used by both sides and in all conflict, then it is the principle reason that wars are not won. In war proportionality must be the last thought, not the first. After taking the time to read the article and some of the comments, I tend to agree with 2 of the comments.
Ddad99
8/6/2014 6:00 PM EST
“Rules? In a knifefight?”
– Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid
Flame Cct
8/6/2014 4:23 PM EST
I believe it is Hamas (Muslim Brotherhood offshoot) that has as part of their charter the religious exclusion and extermination of Jews. Not to mention those groups that want a Caliphate or religiously exclusive State.
I would also point out the numerous violations of international humanitarian law committed by Hamas yet the author of the article, like many others, fail to hold terrorists and other groups to the same standards. Basically it is terrible analysis and an attempt to pervert international humanitarian law.
NEO, if Eisenhower and been troubled by this “Law of War,” D-Day would never have taken place. It was an over-whelming dis-proportional response to destroy the enemy. Hiltler was dead & Germany defeated. Then by that time Truman had another option of over-whelming dis-proportional response, the A-Bomb, of which has and will be debated forever, but it ended WWII.
Now I would recommend to you and C this article, which may shock those constant consumers of the BBC, PBS, National Public Radio, & other liberal media. It’s a refreshing truthful analysis of the Gaza situation and what it may lead to.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2014/07/sheep_and_goats_impure_thoughts_on_the_gaza_war.html
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On D Day, Hitler was very much alive, and the Germans were well entrenched; there was nothing disproportionate about it.
Israel has two ways of going. it can kill the population of Gaza, which will make it a pariah state, and even the US would find it difficult to support it; or it can try to find a diplomatic solution. Yes, Hamas says it wants to destroy Israel, but that was what the PLO used to say.
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C, I agree, Israel in theory can kill them all, but even the US (as I keep saying; the people) won’t go that far. Too much a reminder of the Albigensian Crusade, which left a bad taste in my youth. Besides, it’s very hard to kill ideas (even terrible ones) with a gun.
Somehow Israel (the rest of us as well) needs to find a way to integrate the dreams of these kids into our societies, that’s how you win. Napoleon was reputed to have said that you can do almost anything with bayonets, except to sit on them. I think they find much use at a bar-b-que but, that’s me 🙂
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Very true Neo. Proportionality matters in these situations, and Hamas is delighted to have provoked Israel in this way.
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It does look like Israel has figured it out as well, I would guess it took a while to get over their anger as well. It would me. Now If ISIS would figure that out.
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ISIS aren’t interested – yet – no one has yet stopped them.
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True, that knowledge will come to them, at some point.
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At the present rate, not for some time – still our governments do nothing at all, and here, finally, the media is catching the story
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Here as well. That female MP in Baghdad did her countrymen a signal service. I see a fair amount of support in places I wouldn’t expect it, there and here. I wrote (although compiled might be a better term) on it this morning.
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I shall look out for it Neo
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Just up, the lag involved in writing at night bit me some, of course.
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Yes, just seen and liked it – well done
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I thought not bad, hope a few come around. I see the New Yorker is asking when (if) we will help as well.
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Yes, the pressure mounts on the ostriches
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Yep, most of the squirrels are lying low, for the moment, and so we can talk of important things. It might work, to the point of supplying the Kurds, anyway. Turkey is not doing well at making friends here at the moment, and that was usually the sticking point. It seems that nearly all of our people that dealt with the Kurds, liked them.
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ISIS is worried that the Kurds and Baghdad have come to an accord – of they look in the mirror they would see the reason.
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To a point they have, I think. Baghdad was doing a bit of air support for the Kurds yesterday, as well as attempting to resupply the mountain.
I carry little brief for Baghdad but certainly better than these barbarians.
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Yes, certainly.
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We seem, to a point, to be coming back to reality, that if you are on our side, we can tolerate a bit of nonsense, it’s not optimal, mind but, it worked before.
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Not optimal at all, but needs must and all that.
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That is so.
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I’ve one coming up later.
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Good. I’ve updated mine. The speech of that Iraqi MP has become available. It is intensely moving. I note that here, as there, this story has moved into the media and the large blogs, finally.
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Yes, getting there – even Speaker B has now tweeted!
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Good! the USG seems still fixated on Gaza, well they’ve been behind the curve for six years, so i guess we shouldn’t be surprised.
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Do you suppose they know there is a curve?
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I have doubts, seems like all they know is downhill. 🙂
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All the way 🙂
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Will you understand the joke if I reply that that there are few paras indeed in that lot? 🙂
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Yes 🙂
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I thought so but one never knows! 🙂
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If one is to think of a civil society as a microcosm that has developed in the West, proportionality and the laws which govern the society apply to a civilized people. We make a pact to obey the laws which protect our property and our lives etc. As a macrocosm of this Western version of civil society what we have in Gaza and other Muslim nations is equivalent to a street gang that is neither civil and thereby do not recognize the laws of the West and are unfit to live among the civilized peoples of this wider society.
In a microcosm, we separate such violators of our compact with one another by keeping the law breakers, murderers and thieves separated from greater society by jail and if they still impose a threat (in some countries) we apply the death penalty. This seems appropriate in our civil microcosm – so why not in the macrocosm?
We do not try to rehabilitate murderers who continue to express a desire to kill people in society and we do not slap them on their wrist for their crimes. We either isolate them (like in Gaza) or when they infiltrate or indiscriminately lob thousands of bombs at our citizens and cheer the murder of our citizens we destroy them.
We may feel sorry for their children and their wives and the innocent among them – but we have a duty to protect the people that abide by our laws. If they don’t prison or isolation seems to be the proper response. If that does not do the trick, what is your answer? Are we to live in constant fear of indiscriminate attacks and death or do we try to isolate them in their own little hell of a prison or do we execute the perpetrators of the evil if and when we can?
An eye for an eye and tooth for a tooth is a wonderful ideal of proportionality. Unfortunately, it only applies to those who obey those rules. That is not the mindset of the peoples that Israel faces.
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But you cannot kill an entire people, not treat an entire territory as a street gang. Israel has lost the propaganda war here hugely, and the pressures are building to halt arms sales. I do not think this will happen – this time. But the Hamas tactic, of putting babies in harm’s way when the Israelis fight back is working; no one is blaming Hamas, they are blaming Israel. Unfair, but it is what is happening.
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.
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True. But then again, it is like a murderer that takes hostages. We do our best to negotiate for their release, then we try to isolate them from the hostages and when we can do neither, we take them out even if some of the innocent are killed in the struggle. You do not let them go and appease them because they are cowards and hide behind their women and children. It is a sad and horrible decision that swat teams have to deal with every year. You do what you can do and I think Israel is doing what they have to do.
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Yes, but they have now stopped, and quite right.
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I am happy for that as well though if they have not eradicated the missiles and destroyed all the tunnels they will sadly have to return at some point unless their people of Gaza get tired of the Hamas government they put into power and the pain and suffering which is the consequence of their actions.
The question I have for all our Western societies is why do we allow peoples to immigrate to our countries when they have no desire to enter into the same social compact that they rest of our society? Seems that we are creating countries inside of countries; our own potential Gaza’s. When the bombs start flying in our own countries will we be so quick to criticize a response to their uncivilized actions or will we cheer those who try to eradicate the perpetrators of this evil?
My hat is off to Israel. No country has ever taken the extraordinary measures that they did to minimize the damage to the innocent; leaflets that warned them and even phone calls to hospitals and schools to try to get them to evacuate. That is about as civilized as anyone has ever been in such a situation.
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I agree entirely. The problem is that Hamas has suckered the MSM into playing its game.
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Actually, I don’t think the MSM has been suckered at all. This is the side they are on and their true stiles are now becoming apparent. They are staunchly anti-Jew and anti-Christian and they hide behind the Muslim storyline in order to spout their prejudices and hatreds. They are no different than those who enabled Hitler and his barbarity. They are the fomenters of hate though they don’t want any blood on their hands; just want to incite others to do their blood letting for them.
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Over here I think they have been conned – they used to be far more even-handed.
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Could be. Over here I think they just came out of the closet. 🙂
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You need closets with locks 🙂
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It’s like Pandora’s box. Once their out, it is impossible to get them back in. Sigh. 🙂
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It is, alas. 🙂
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