The UK is going through one of its periodic moral panics: the sacred NHS has been under fire for its treatment of patients, not least the elderly, and now has to encourage its nurses to take courses in ‘compassion’; the BBC is a by-word for inflated salaries and cover ups, and, after the Savile and Rolf Harris scandals, looks like a cess-pit; Parliament itself is now embroiled in another paedophile scandal, and I am told that the Twittersphere is full of rumours about the most extraordinary range of folk; one assumes some of its users learnt nothing from what happened in the case of Lord Macalpine and the wife of Speaker Bercow? As the lady from whom I get my morning paper said “They’re all it Geoffrey, the lot of them, I don’t know what the world’s coming to!” My response encapsulated only part of what I felt: ‘Aye, lass, the world’s going to hell in a hand cart!”
It is tempting to say that this is what happens when a nation turns its back on God. It isn’t that God punishes us, it is that the consequences of our sinful acts inflicts punishment on ourselves; if God wanted to punish us, I’m sure he could, and there’s been occasions when I’ve wondered about the gopher wood and my carpentry skills. But before giving into that temptation, I’m also tempted to wonder how much of this sort of thing went on in the past, and it was just that we ordinary folk never knew about it? As Bosco never ceases to remind us (and it was mildly interesting the first time he mentioned it, but the millionth repetition gets a little tiresome) the Popes of the Middle Ages were not always the most upright of folk. Students of the late Roman Empire have a feeling of deja vu all over again. After all, mankind, although inventive in its sinning, is inclined to sins which have a limited number of variations, and there is nothing new under the sun.
But what is plain for all to see is that despite being one of the few countries in the world with an Established Church, whose senior members sit in the legislature as of right, the UK is one of the most atheistic countries in the world. The USA may have its culture wars, but at least there there are two armies, with that of God being (literally at times) well-armed ans active in the public sphere. American Christians are far more active in opposing abortion and in evangelisation than we are here. I daresay that not all is well, and that the forces of darkness make advances, but over the Atlantic, with no Establishment, the cause of Christ is advanced with more fervour and success. It really is time we got rid of this great wen. When the former Archbishop of Canterbury and a rising young star in its frimament tell us effectively to meditate and go along with the idea that God isn’t there in a leftie journal where they could try to preach the Word, we know its game is up. Let us free its priests up from the dead hand of the State, and let us abolish bishops, places in the Lord, and let us disestablish a church whose good can be seen at parish level, and whose defects loom large at a national one.
All Along the Watchtower 
I haven’t found a good (or really, any) way to analyze it but I instinctively feel that our lack of an established church and our proclivity to independent associations has served us well, for the most part, in maintaining our Christian heritage. Of course one must factor into that that we were founded at the high tide of English liberty as well, and got the most vociferous ones as well.
In short, we became what you were and maintained it, perhaps better than you did, not least because we enshrined the common law and set it above the legislature. In fact, this bothered me about the UK even when I was in high school, that you had an unchecked (by any means at all) executive in Parliament that could legislate absolutely anything.
And then you sold your heritage to Brussels. What did you expect?
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Keeping bishops is an expensive luxury if they do nothing. I think the US did well because of its strong Protestant heritage from the old world – and by that I don’t mean Anglican 🙂
One of the things which goes with Protestantism, for good and ill, is self-reliance and self-responsibility; no one but God to confess to, no one to tell you what to do – face up to your responsibilities and get on with it, and if you screw up, the fiery lake awaits. Works well for many of us still.
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No one to tell you what to do? Who then taught you to face up to your responsibilities and what these responsibilities entail? We all have a magisterium of sorts. It seems that they are formed in our conscience from those who impress us in their holiness or in their heroic struggle to lead a holy life. We listen to them and they help us form our consciences. Whether these men or women of great saintliness are part of the hierarchy of laymen, they remain the progenitors of our magisterial conscience in things religious.
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Quite right – it was the reading of Holy Writ did that for us 🙂
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It is a fine place to begin one’s journey. 🙂
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Very much so – but the eunuch was right – we need instruction 🙂
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Agreed and we why we need the Holy Spirit to lead us to those who can truly teach and instruct in word and in deed. 🙂
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Very true my friend.
What we don’t need are useless shepherds like the ones here in today’s posts.
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That is so. Shepherds who lead their flocks astray will get their reward.
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It does indeed, although our Anglicans did wonderful service, nearly all the Virginians you’ve heard of were staunch Anglican/Episcopalians depending on the time.
Until the 30s-50s, anyway, when the Communion seemed to go astray very quickly, I probably shouldn’t talk, my ELCA did much the same-without the prominence, and we are perhaps better at ignoring our bishops :-).
But, in a very real sense, the conflict between Anglican and Congregationalist, with some RCC thrown in for good measure is the reason we don’t have an established church. And even in the states which could have, and some did, they died out soon after the Revolution, as we became even more individual-centric. I think Virginia was the last about 1830 or so.
But an established church by it’s nature, tends to be corrupted, be it the Anglican in England or the Evangelical church in Germany. two masters is one too many, it seems.
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True enough Neo, and two masters is one too many 🙂
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Just never seems to work out. 🙂
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Servus, the answer is what it has always been in a proper society. Our parents, our community and our church. Yes many of us read the fathers (and uncles) of our Faith but it is the living examples which most influence the young ones. It is the same for the average parishioner in your church, I would think. Most member don’t think deeply, and mostly want to fit in. What matters most is what is tolerated.
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The key phrase ‘proper society’ is key here, Neo. We have sit by and watched as parents became disengaged with teaching religion to their children, the community has reflected everything other than Christian values and the Church itself seems on the brink of trying to bargain with the devil for a ‘middle ground.’
As to what is tolerated today? Pretty much any and every thing. 🙂
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I know and agree. But that’s where we are, and at that we are in better shape than our forebears were in the 3d century, and they eventually pulled it off, with God’s help. About all I can see is to define our communities, and try to keep away from the libertines, won’t be perfect but better than anything else I’ve thought of. 🙂
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Yes, and don’t forget the contributions of the martyred. It may come again and I pray that we will have the courage and stomach to come up to the challenge. As Tertullian wrote, “the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church,”
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It has come, or more accurately never ended, except in Europe and America. We just need to pay more attention, and perhaps act accordingly.
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Quite right: there were more martyrs in the 20th century than all the centuries preceding. And I think it is only ratcheting up.
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Welcome to the end of western european civilization, unless of course we do a comeback, which is certainly possible. More than a few have suggested that Obama is our King John, and I think it possible.
Europe is gone, simply because they aren’t reproducing and the UK isn’t a lot better in that, nor are we actually, if we factor out the Hispanics, which tend to be a pale reflection of the real thing.
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A rather bleak future or at least a rather awesome task to create a better one. The loss of individuality in this world and anonymity in anything we do is a first in civilization and I don’t know how God will put it right: an EMP might actually help though it will bring us all to the brink; though it would have the effect of bringing people to work together and actually interact. Sad part is: we would soon repair the damage and go back to our new found slavery to electronics and virtual friends and virtual realities.
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Yeah, although I think it would take longer than you think. The basics, such as money would also be gone, of course, so would many of the looters. Not optimal, better to work from where we are. And no the loss of individuality is more of a return to normal than anything else. Individuality is a result of western civilization, not the other way around.
Interesting times, though 🙂
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True but the loss of all privacy and our dependence on living on the grid will certainly be a new wrinkle in things. Packing courts, executive orders, an impotent congress and an out of control ‘police state’ is starting to unfold before our sleepy eyes and we twiddle our thumbs and reach for the remote. This is not the America any of our founders could have imagined. 🙂
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It is not, and I have several pieces that I’m working on. Mine here on the fourth was a precursor, what we are seeing is the return of the prerogative, which is the constant battle in our history, all the way back before the Conquest. It is exactly what the founder’s rebelled against, come back in a different form. Far too much in this for a commbox though. 🙂
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I would imagine so. 🙂
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Hopefully not a dozen parts buts more than one 🙂
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I understand. 🙂
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Thought you would 🙂
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🙂
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🙂
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The Archbishop of Canterbury, seems to proffer good advice only to pervert the sense of ancient practices and then combine them with ‘technique’ and ‘feelings’ that we are progressing; though not in the sense of the Christian pilgrims of our fathers and saints within the Church. For instance, He is right to insinuate that we pray both with our mouth, our hearts, our minds and our whole bodies. What is troublesome to me is the melding of Buddhist or yogic practices to Christian prayer which Centering prayer seems to be all the rage these days. At the center of which, there lies the Christ within they say, but it is seemingly more associated with how they feel concerning their selves: it is not a centering on the Christ.
During the rituals used for liturgical worship, there is no doubt what our body language coveys and out minds and hearts are (in a proper Mass) focused upon Christ and His Sacrificial death on the Cross. We are driven to remorse, guilt, shame, sadness and great love of Christ which culminates in the joy of being loved so much by an awesome God. We too are taken inside ourselves to see ourselves as the nothings we are in relation to such a God and how unworthy we are of His concern and care for our souls. That is the beginning of a radical change in a mans life, where he starts to live for Christ and to love His neighbors for love of Him. It effects the greatest noticeable changes in our acts of will; where we live differently and try to do battle with our inner weaknesses and sin so that we might draw closer to Him. Outside of this, I find the Eastern approach to prayer and to our faith as incompatible as oil and water. This new penchant for such spirituality lets me see why Teilhard and even to some extent Merton has captured the imagination of many who seek ‘experiences’ in their spiritual life rather than a slow painful transformation into a new man; another Christ.
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Yes, the quick fix route is always going to go down well for our society – and best not associate it with Christianity any hiw.
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We are a society of little patience and a great desire for immediate satisfaction or instant gratification. Gone are the days of a long painful spiritual struggle and enter in the promise for instant holiness, enlightenment and the rest which promises results that the ‘old’ ways of our fathers in faith just can’t match. The question is, does it lead to the same place?
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Hmmm…I don’t know what to say, Geoffrey. Perhaps you are right: if the government has been ignoring the orthodox while they’ve been sitting in the Lords and writing articles for the papers, then perhaps the time has come for us to get out of the game altogether. Perhaps it’s better to be the voice of one crying out in the wilderness…if God will bring the people to listen, then perhaps we don’t need the market-place anymore. I wish this illusion of “Christian but not practicing” and “spiritual but not religious” would be shown for what it is. Where’s the zeal to cry out in the Commons and the Lords for the repeal of the abortion laws? Our faith is supposed to be radical, not accommodating.
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Very true, Nicholas. The Bishops should be using their platform to spread the faith – but they seem shy.
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I think, although you guys are much closer, that the problem isn’t so much establishment, per se, as it was in ceding power in the church to Parliament. I understand why, particularly since your luck with the monarchy wasn’t good either, but I think now if you wish to continue the establishment of the church, it would better reside with the crown (although Charles will certainly be a problem) or with the archbishop and without the parliament, Christianity isn’t really a good place for democracy, especially an unlimited one.
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COLOMBO, Sri Lanka (AP) — A Buddhist group accused of instigating recent attacks on Muslims in Sri Lanka says Pope Francis must apologize to Buddhists for atrocities allegedly committed by Christian colonial rulers of the South Asian island nation when he visits next year.
“Previous Popes had made public apologies to certain countries because they destroyed, they killed. We had a similar situation, most of the Buddhist temples were destroyed by them (they) killed Buddhist monks. We would like to see that public apology from him,” said Gnanasara, whose comments were made Monday but embargoed until Tuesday.
http://news.yahoo.com/hardline-buddhists-want-pope-francis-apologize-063832969.html
Gad dang man. Every where the catholic church has gone, murder and destruction follows.
One universal holy apostolic. You guys gotta look somewhere else if you want salvation. This don’t sound like any church Christ has anything to do with.
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