Tags
Apostles, Christianity, controversy, heresy, history, Holy Spirit, sin
St John’s first letter tells us:
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
This was the fruit of John’s own bitter experience with those he called ‘liars’, and who promoted a gospel other than the one they had ‘heard from the beginning’. John became aware, here, and painfully, of the limits of the view that inspiration by the Holy Spirit could unite a community; how do we know? Because his own community was destroyed by those making the claim to be inspired by the Spirit, but who taught something other than what John had heard from Jesus and taught his followers. These men claimed to have the anointing from the Holy Spirit, and yet what they taught was not what John had been taught. They clearly thought, and acted on the thought, that their revelation was superior to that even of the ‘beloved disciple’; they had met the Spirit and he had told them what was what; the problem was, for John, was that what they were teaching was not what Jesus had taught him. So, from this early on in the life of the Church we have had what here we call the ‘Bosco problem’ – someone claiming to be born again and ‘saved’ who tells us he has had a personal revelation and that others will be damned if they do not heed him. John gives us the answer – ‘test the spirit’. Is it in accord with what the rest of the community believed, was John’s test, and for us, nearly two thousand years on, it is whether what the Boscos of this world say chimes with what Christians have been taught.
Now this is more difficult than it was in John’s day, because of the variety of churches calling themselves Christian, but we return, as I do here so often, to the consensus reached on the important Christological matters at Nicaea. Christology matters because it goes to the heart of who Christ is; if we claim to follow him, we have to know who he is. So, for us, as for John, at the heart of the matter is that he is God and Man – fully both. Those, who, like Bosco, cite only those verses which emphasise he is a man, miss the point and do not know him; yes, Jesus is a man, but he is the Godman.
At stake here is what was at stake for John, it is indeed the same issue exactly; heresy is never new. So, John tells us, because his opponents denied it that: “Jesus is the Christ” (2:22; 5:1); that “Jesus is
the Son of God” (4:15; 5:5); that “Jesus Christ has (is) come in the flesh” (4:1-3; 2 Jn 7) that he is: “the one who came by water and blood, Jesus Christ” (1:7; 2:1; 4:2, 9, 10, 14; 5:6; cf also 3:16). These three credal formulas reflect the basic Christological tenets of the opponents of John, as they do of those who follow the teachings of the Father of Lies to this day. These are the credal tenets of orthodoxy, and we do well to test any Spirit by them; if that spirit does not confess these things, then he should be turned aside.
So, for our friend and brother Bosco, this is how he should test the spirit:
- Does your Spirit say Jesus is the Christ?
- Does it say that He is God and Man?
- Does it say salvation is by water and the Spirit?
There are many spirits in this world, and Peter warns the devil prowls around seeking whom he can destroy, and he does so by getting them to take snippets of scripture and encouraging men in their stubborn pride to teach what has not been taught from the beginning. Even the words of Scripture can be twisted to our damnation.
Addendum
The idea, just elaborated by Bosco, that one ‘tests the spirit’ by listening to it is, shall we say, a little strange. If the Father of Lies is speaking to you, he is not going to want you to listen to any spirit but his own one.
Reblogged this on U.S. Constitutional Free Press.
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Test the spirit is for the born again, you Nimrod. The NT is a letter to the saved, not the carnal man.
A few yrs back I was watching this church show on TV. They talked the talk and I watched it for weeks.But I had a feeling something was amiss. Ive said many times that I either hear the lords voice or I don’t. They were good but the Lords voice wasn’t hitting me. It tooks weeks and weeks of watching and then one day they tossed out the hook. They were Seventh Day Adventists.
Once again, I was watching this guy Doug Batchlor and he sounded good, but I knew there was a hook coming. I watched for months and didn’t find the hook. The show didn’t say which religion it was which made me think he was independent. Then one day he said he was Seventh Day.
Those guys are good I tell you. They almost sound born again.
I tested the spirit by listening to them and hearing what they say. That’s how one tests a spirit.
Some numbskulls in here told me I should have tested the spirit that came to me.
Idiots
I was changed in the twinkling of an eye. I had no choice.
These religious people cant stand that I say I know Jesus. Them and their fathers and their fathers all the way back to their their original group the Pharisees are all the same. Everything is carnal. God is a ritual.
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I thought so. You test all things against your self proclaimed born again status not against what the Christians have always taught or even what the Apostles taught and did. You are a god in your own mind, Bosco.
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If he were capable of understanding, and if he hasd ever read John’s letters, he would see he is the one against whom it is written. he is a follower of the anti-Christ, and his demon torments him.
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Until the scales fall away from his eyes I doubt if anybody can make much headway with his thinking.
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If his idea of testing the spirit is to listen to it, then I agree.
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Seems that is the case, my friend.
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You reply as the heretics replied to John; you claim to be saved, but you are in the hands of the devil.
Think, or you will be lost. You tested the spirit by listening to them. What test is that? If they are lying, and they are, they will carry on lying.
You have not tested them, you have become enslaved to the evil spirit – this is what we see in your bile, your prejudices and your folly.
Your silly anti-Catholic nonsense does not work with me, I am not a Catholic. I first knew God when I was a boy sixty-five years ago, so your prejudices don’t work with me.
I have told you, as John told people, how to test the spirits, but your evil spirit will not let you listen. Test it by listening to it – if it were not that you are a lost soul, it would be a cause for laughing.
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So, for our friend and brother Bosco, this is how he should test the spirit:
◾Does your Spirit say Jesus is the Christ?
◾Does it say that He is God and Man?
◾Does it say salvation is by water and the Spirit?
That’s it> that’s how you test a spirit?
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah
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Yes, Christians usually do compare what they hold with what the Church has held from the beginning and we do read what the earliest Christians had to say in order to test the spirits. If that is laughable to you, then so be it. Your litmus test is see if things agree with you because, after all, you have pronounced yourself a saved person and yet offer no proof to us or to yourself except that you will have no other gospel but the one you have written in your mind.
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I have added something just for Bosco.
If he thinks you test an evil spirit by listening to it, then he really does miss the point, He will not miss the lake of fire.
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That is a good point. Once we discover that the spirit is speaking against what Christianity has always taught then one needs to ignore it rather than entice it. For if you entice it, it will get rather bold and stronger, thus harder to drive out.
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This is clearly what has happened, As with all sin, the more we indulge it, the greater hold it gets upon us. We can only pray for the poor fellow.
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Agreed. I join my prayers with yours, Geoffrey.
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It is all we can do in love.
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Truly.
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The Seventh Dayers said all of the above and more. They believe everything in the bible. They go along with bible teaching, which the CC doesn’t, but that’s another matter. What the 7th dayers don’t have is being born again. They talk about it but have it. Their hook is….which I didn’t mention…..is that they are saved and one has to join them. Their religion is gods true religion. The same as the idolatrous murderous vice filled CC.
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Maybe you should have looked to the teachings of Christians all through the ages to judge them and to judge Catholics. But you judge according to your self indulgenced belief that you are saved and therefore know all things that are needful for your salvation. And consequently you compare all others to see if they agree with you as only your thinking is infallible in all matters relating to God.
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Bosco – I have given you chapter and verse from St John, not the Catholic Church. If you wish to be with St John’s enemies, you are the enemy of Christ – you are with the anti-Christ.
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The bible says deacons should be married to one wife and masters of their household. This is bible teaching. Paul says forbidding to marry is a doctrine of devils. Is this why you decided to join the CC? Because youre so smart and know the scriptures so well?
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The Church sees marriage as a Holy Sacrament you moron. That we also follow Paul’s teaching about remaining single if we have been brought to faith while single. So that has been the practice (not an infallible teaching) that we hold to. That some cannot abide by it is sad; implying that Christ alone is not enough for them. But we understand that men are fallen and such things will happen. We do not disparage the Orthodox because they have married priests. Of course, you know all of this but you can never pass up an opportunity to let your inner spirits spew their wrath and hatred toward the Catholic Faith.
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Again, you twist the meaning. The Bible does not say deacons have to be married, it does say that they should not be polygamous. That was because in Roman society, men had more than one wife (though how they put up with more than one mother-in-law is a miracle).
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So tell me..if I was married, could I become a catholic priest?
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In my diocese we have several married priests who were former pastors in the Anglican church before becoming Catholic.
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But you judge according to your self indulgenced belief that you are saved and therefore know all things that are needful for your salvation. And consequently you compare all others to see if they agree with you as only your thinking is infallible in all matters relating to God.
I know all things needed to be saved? Is salvation dependant on knowing some things? Can one learn to be saved?
Hmmm, I thought it was a gift from God. Jesus died so we can have salvation freely.
I have never said one must agree with me. I say that I don’t hear the voice of the Lord in their talk. Its not for the unsaved to understand. I see why it infuriates most people. They think im better than them.
It tell you the same as Jesus does….behold, he stands at the door and knocks.
As long as you are alive, you can open the door. Once youre dead, its too late. Sorry, no second chance purgatory.
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You have not truly assented to Christ and His Church. You have assented to a person you call Jesus and renounce all churches that teach Christ in His name.
Can you really assent to someone or something without knowing them or knowing and accepting what they teach? Jesus taught us both by word and by deed. Yet you deny many of Christ’s teachings; Baptism included.
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Maybe you should have looked to the teachings of Christians all through the ages to judge them and to judge Catholics
That’s your problem. Everything that matters is what someones teachings are.
There are two kinds of people….the saved and the unsaved. Either one is saved or one isn’t. God doesn’t send people to hell because of teaching. The goats to the left, the saved to the right.
God doesn’t say….Ok, uh, lets examine the teachings of your sick sad religion. Oh look, your church teachings are good. Ok, all who belong to that religion, enter into my rest. Yeah, it don’t matter if you were a priest and tore little children apart, just as long as your church teaching is good.
What he does say is…..depart from me, I never knew you.
Then they will say…but we did good works in your name and did all the things our religion told us to do.
If you don’t personally know jesus now, he wont know you at judgment.
He stands at the door to come in and sup with you. Take it or leave it.
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You do not take Christ’s founding of a Church seriously and therefore ignore the Gospel to go out and preach the Gospel to all the world. Since the Church was founded for a reason (to bring people to Christ and thereby to save their souls) it might be a good idea to see what the Church has taught from the beginning. You might also believe that Christ sent the Holy Spirit to protect this teaching in the Church and thus learn from all the history of Christianity. Seems to me Christ didn’t found it in order to confound us but to enlighten us. You believe what you believe because you have convinced yourself that it is truly of God. But what you believe denies much of what Christ taught and pretty much everything that His Church has taught over the ages.
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You have assented to a person you call Jesus and renounce all churches that teach Christ in His name.
Wow, you got that on right my brother. What worries me is why that bothers you. Its nice that you want me to be saved if you think salvation is in the CC. Once youre born again, the holy ghost will set you straight.
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Unless what you are calling the Holy Ghost is a ghost of a different sort. Then you have been led astray. Its good to check with the history of Christ’s Church and make sure that the spirit is indeed the Holy Spirit.
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Check with the CC. I follow the Lamb. he does battle for me. I am under orders to “be still and behold the salvation of the Lord”
I guess you check everything with the CC. That’s nice.
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How do you know it is the Lamb you are following Bosco? Perhaps you are following a goat and mistook it for the Lamb?
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you will have no other gospel but the one you have written in your mind.
I didn’t know I wrote my own gospel. I was sure my only gospel is the KJV
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No even the KJV with the absence of certain books reads more orthodox than anything you believe. So it is how you read what you read; not what you read. It is internal to you and is influenced by whatever it is that leads you.
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Bosco is led by the spirit of anti-Christ.
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Well at least he got the spirit part right. 🙂
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He surely did my friend. How the heathen doth rage in vain.
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The cries of the banshees.
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I see he is concentrating his fire on poor C – he’ll get no joy there, but I guess he can use his usual schtick.
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Yes, scripture was written only for the saved schtick. Seems odd that they would need one. 🙂
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Aye good bro Servus, you say you got some married priest that jumped ship from the Anglican org eh? That ought to be refreshing. The CC claims its priests are celibate. How does this work? Are excptions to Cc teaching allowed? Seems to me its all a bunch of wind in sails, this CC teaching stuff.
Open the door to Christ, the author of your faith. Leave this religionof the false claims. Jesus burden is light. You can have rest for your soul.
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I already told you, brother Bosco, that it is not Church teaching; it is Church practice and tradition. We hold to the tradition of the Church from the beginning so it is not likely to ever change. However, the Church can and does, make exceptions for extraordinary circumstances.
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Since the Church was founded for a reason (to bring people to Christ and thereby to save their souls) it might be a good idea to see what the Church has taught
If church teaching is from the bible why don’t you and I just read the bible, instead of this church teasching you keep talking about? Why do catholic keep saying church teaching? Where does scripture fit in to this?
I cant address your posts under the post im addressing because I cant put it there, so forgive me if I answer you way down the page. Lots of time you hit on a good subject but I cant answer it directly if a lot of posts get underneath it.
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We do read the Bible Bosco and quote the Bible to you. Unfortunately, you give the readings a new meaning that Christians have never held.
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Im trying to find a born again Christian to come in here so you all can see we all know the same person and are like minded.
This new meaning you say I give scripture… I wasn’t aware I was mangling it. Im pretty much for face value of scripture.
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Like how you understand baptism, the body and blood of Christ, the powers to forgive sin, the two natures of Christ etc. etc. etc.?
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It may help good friend Servus to know that the Eastern Catholic Churches permit married priests as well though they are prohibited to marry after ordination.
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Good point newenglandsun.
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That is what the Bible says – so laugh at the Bible. Let us see, who laughs at the Bible – the father of lies. S, we test your spirit and see what it is and where it comes from. You are bound for hell Bosco, unless you get help, you will end badly.
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Good brother Jeff, why don’t you tell me which of my beliefs is wrong?
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You have, here in the past, denied that Jesus is both divine and human; you have, here, in the past, written that Jesus was just a man; you have, here in the past written that Jesus is the Father as well as the Son. All of these are wrong.
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You have, here in the past, denied that Jesus is both divine and human
You must stop drinking the Glenlivet this early ol chap.
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You need to read what you write Bosco, and remember what you write. You have written here that Jesus is just a man. You can lie about it now, and no one can be bothered to go through your comments – but you know you wrote it, I do, and Servus does – and your spirit, the father of lies knows it too.
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Jesus is the son of man. He is full human. He just happened to be the creator of heaven and earth
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No one denies he is fully human Bosco, this is the lie you peddle; the question is doe you believe He is also God? Yes or no?
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Is that it? Is that the only thing you you find fault with? Im doing pretty good then
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I have told you where you are at fault.
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Jesus said…”I and the father are one”
Did I mention I believe everything in the bible?
Well, now you know.
Next false accusation.
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He did not say ‘I am the Father’; another example of how the unsaved twist the words of scripture to their damnation. Condemned by your own evil spirit, Bosco the servant of anti-Christ.
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One of his boys asked Jesus to show them the Father. Jesus said that he has been with them the whole time and ddoesnt he know him? Jesus said something like…Havent I been with you so long and you don’t know me?
But, its not important. Asking for salvation is whats important. Jesus is the Father. There is no one else. He is the God of Jacob. He is the Mighty One of Israel. Beside him there is no one else…he knows not any.
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If your evil spirit is telling you he’ll get you saved, you’re in deep doo-doo.
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Mr. Sales,
Someone once told me to never trust a Modalist, even if they tell you “The sky is blue!”
St. Bosco says:
“Jesus is the Father. There is no one else.”
Conclusion:
Bosco is always wrong especially if he tells you “The sky is blue!”
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St. Bosco says:
“Did I mention I believe everything in the bible?”
QUICK! Ask St. Bosco how he explains the following:
Matt. 3:16-17, Matt. 27:46, Rev. 3:12!
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And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
I don’t know what explanation you want. It seems to say what it means.
And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
Are you wanting me to explain how Jesus cried out to god if he is god and there is none else? God is in three persons. Havent you heard? I believe a good maccount is Genesis 8, I believe, with Abraham as he sat in the door of his tent.
Oh and hows it going good brother Newengland?
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The Modalistic Concept of the Trinity
According to the modalistic concept of the Trinity, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are not equally and eternally co-existent, but are merely three successive manifestations of God, or three temporary modes of His activity. Modalism, which is actually a form of unitarianism, denies that God in His own inner being is triune. Rather, it claims that the Father, Son, and Spirit are either temporary or successive roles adopted by God in carrying out the divine plan of redemption and that they in no way correspond to anything in the ultimate nature of the Godhead.1 Modalism does not recognize the independent personality of Christ, but regards the incarnation as a mode of the existence or manifestation of the Father.2 For the modalists, the Father, Son, and Spirit only refer to the way in which God reveals Himself, but bear no relation to His inner being.
What a bunch of horse spit. Now im a modalist. Haaaahahahahahahahahaha. You guys really need a hobby. Ive been called worster than that. God is who he is, and flapping your gums wont change anything. God doesn’t care enough to give an accounting of who he is. Moses wanted a name to tell the Hebrews who it is who is sending him to them. God said….tel them that “I Am ” hath sent you.
That all you wide mouthed bass need to know….he is, that’s all you need to know.
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VATICAN CITY (AP) – The Vatican conceded Thursday that most Catholics reject its teachings on sex and contraception as intrusive and irrelevant and officials pledged not to “close our eyes to anything” when it opens a two-year debate on some of the thorniest issues facing the church.
You can stop waving around “church teaching” now
But one can rely on Christ. Ask him for this salvation that you’ve heard about.
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You have not, I take it, actually read the document, just the MSM headlines? Bless you Bosco, where would the MSM be without those like you with the attention span of a gnat?
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Sticking up for the catholic church again? Don’t you know you are a heretic and fit to be burned at the stake if they had their way?
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No, sticking up, as a Christian should, for truth. I have read the 73 page document and marvel, at ever, at the way the MSM twist things. I recommend reading to you Bosco, it will help you.
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I don’t have this document and I don’t care what it says. I just follow the Lamb. I leave documents to the unsaved to mull over.
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You are too under the influence of the anti-Christ to read anything apertaining to truth Bosco.
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I have the Words of God in a book.
Since when did catholic mumbo jumbo become the gospel truth?
So im a bad person because I don’t reead this document. You need to get a hobby. Do something with your mind. Spider webs are chocking it.
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Frankly, when I first started reading this blog, I thought I had found a group of folks who were really striving to ratchet up their own spirituality and understanding, and the spirituality and understanding of others. I have recently concluded that you have all been drawn into a trap — a trap that has resulted in outright name calling, and the use of out-of-context and narrow references to support your own opinions — which will not change — all in the name of the Lord? It seems that you are no longer interested in learning, but rather in simply seeing who can do the best job of ridiculing the other’s position. Sad. At first I was feeling somewhat instructed. Now, I simply feel as though I am reading no more than another vitriolic debate on climate change.
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That’s my fault. I get things started when I talk about being born again. When im away, things settle out into civil discussions.
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Illero has a good point, the number of posts that end up dominated by the fruitless tooing and frowing between bozo and Geoff, Chalcedon or SF is getting very predictable. I am thinking that the enemy would be quite pleased with this state of affairs, instead of building Christianity and the spirit we end up on the pointless roundabout pointing out the same errors time and again to bozo, it’s almost like he intends to prevent the blog doing what Jess intended it for. We don’t have to ban him but we can ignore him, most of the time.
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