Damian Thompson, late of the Daily Telegraph, has an excellent piece in this week’s Spectator about ‘the real God wars’. I hope this is a presage of things to come, and that, freed from the need to feed his Saturday column with click-bait, we can see Dr Thompson back to his best, because, make no mistake, this really is a very interesting piece of commentary. A State Department and a Foreign and Commonwealth Office full of bright men and women with first class degrees from good universities, versed in the many models through which “International Relations” can be analysed, have failed, utterly, to comprehend the world in which they are living; nor is their failure simply an academic matter, it has serious consequences for all of us. William J Hague (as he styles himself on Twitter) is a very clever man indeed, and when he aligns himself with Brangelina to go on Twitter to protest against Boko Haram’s seizure of two hundred Christian girls in Nigeria he shows two things: a mastery of the social media which will warm the hearts of his advisers; and an utter want of understanding of his opponents which should chill the heart of everyone. The gesture wins approval from people who might not usually approve of a Conservative (and one should never underestimate the extent to which senior Conservatives feel the need to explain to fellow members of the Metropolitan elite that they do not eat babies for breakfast or harbour plans to exterminate the poor), but it does nothing to suggest that Mr Hague understands the situation in Nigeria; nor is the reason for that hard to seek.
Mr Hague is a generation younger than I am, but I am sure that the Oxford in which he was educated was no different from the one in which I received mine. The Dons were, to a man, Enlightenment intellectuals who were convinced that relgion was a sort of superstition which would die out as people became more educated. Some of them were, in best Richard Dawkins manner, ‘Anglican Agnostics/Atheists’, that is men who appreciated Anglican culture, but wished it did not come accompanied by all that supernatural stuff, and wondered how anyone bright enough to get to Oxford could actually believe it. They were relieved when they found that there were clever men who could explain most of it away and who argued that one could keep the sound moral core whilst discarding the husk; anthropology, philosophy and history could do their allotted work dissolving away the things which embarrassed intelligent men. The idea of actually studying these religions for anything more than historical or phenomenological purposes was not one encountered at seminars on international relations. What mattered there were the models which explained the Cold War, and then, for a brief triumphalist moment, the ‘end of history’ when liberal Enlightenment thought would, as indeed it was bound to, rule unchallenged. It was assumed that all of this was both inevitable and a good thing. We are now at a sufficient distance to see that it has not happened globally, but that where it has, as here and in Europe, it is far from an unalloyed good.
The assumption itself has led to responses to event sin Nigeria and the Middle East which, in less tragic circumstances, would be laughable. From within the Enlightenment model, it makes sense to respond to events in these areas by saying:
‘Every religion can be twisted into a destructive force poisoned by ideas that are antithetical to its foundations. Now it’s Buddhism’s turn.’ There speaks the sorrowful voice of liberalism — still piously attached to the notion that the true message of all religions is ‘peace’.
Dr Thompson notes well the reductionism involved in this sort of thinking. It assumes, that at base, everyone shares the liberal view that ‘peace’ is a good thing and that ‘war’ is bad. Historically there is no justification for this, and, in relation to the history of Islam, it requires a wilful blindness to think that it eschews violence to achieve its aims. Nor is this simply an anti-Muslim point. As Dr Thompson points put:
You won’t hear this on Thought for the Day, but religious violence isn’t exclusively inspired by hatred. During the Reformation, Protestant zealots invaded Catholic churches, smashing beloved statues and whitewashing precious frescoes. Modern Protestants are ashamed of these actions — but if you read Calvin you’ll find a coherent defence of iconoclasm. He believed that religious art invites man to worship the created rather than the Creator, beckoning him towards pagan demons.
Our own Bosco is part of a long tradition in Christianity.
The sad fact is that, without any background in theology or the history of religion, those who rule us and who advise them, along with those who comment on it all, are adrift of their intellectual moorings. The result is best described in Dr Thompson’s own trenchant words:
How interesting that it should be religion that reduced Hitchens and Richard Dawkins — deep thinkers and lovely writers — to spluttering incoherence. They couldn’t make sense of its new vitality. And, if we’re honest, most of us are puzzled. Even when we’ve joined all the dots, it’s hard to explain why ancient prejudices are being customised for the 21st century not just in the basket cases of the Middle East and Africa but also in Asian nations racing towards modernity.
He does not pretend to be able to unpack the answers to these questions, but in asking them he shows a greater perceptivity than our leaders. Perhaps we should be turning out more theology graduates and fewer Pol Sci majors?
Excellent piece, C. Dominus Illuminatio mea.
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Thank you 🙂
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To your last question C, I think we would find that a ‘good’ theologian today is about as rare as a hen’s tooth. So I guess it won’t matter too much.
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Perhaps we may hope for a marginally well-informed one? 🙂
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There is always hope I suppose. 🙂
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There is indeed. But part of the problem is that too many of these chaps are there to explain away Christianity, and are, therefore, of the ruling mind-set.
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That was really my point and you said it well. So many theologians these days have become apologists for secularism.
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I wonder to what extent part of this is the legacy of Protestantism in so far as it downplays the place of art (vide Bosco) and music and liturgy? These all help lift us up to Him and take us away from this world to a better one.
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I absolutely think that this plays a role in things. When liturgy becomes about us and shaking each others hands and back slapping we lose sight of why we are sitting in the Church in the first place.
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It seems such common sense, doesn’t it? My pet peeve is people gossiping before Mass. It isn’t as though they won’t have an opportunity afterwards at coffee.
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Only before Mass? You are indeed lucky, C. We have whispering and talking taking place continuously.
My pet peeves, are those who erupt in clapping when people announce birthdays and anniversaries and the worst is when at the end of Mass the eruption of folk standing around by the pews talking, laughing and joking around while some want to continue their ‘thanksgiving’ after Mass in prayer. I have finally given up on the possibility that they might show some courtesy to others.
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I shall have to thank my lucky stars 🙂
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Indeed, it seems you have a rather civil gathering. 🙂
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So it would seem 🙂
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Clam claws are also very rare. I can’t find them anywhere.
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And clam claws may be of more use 🙂
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What concerns me is that the secularists don’t realise or don’t care that their way offers no moral opposition to Islam. This is what is poisoning and destroying beloved France. When you take God out of the picture you have no authority, no arbiter for moral questions. Secularism has no moral authority to say that what Islam is doing is wrong.
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Very true. In the end all it has is force, and that is not wroking.
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By Delia Gallagher, CNN
ROME (CNN) – The Vatican said Thursday that gays and lesbians must be treated with respect, their children may be baptized in the church, and admitted that Catholic priests are sometimes unsure about how to deal with same-sex couples
Well, the priest can deal with same sex couples the same way they deal with their own gay lovers. They can ask the couple if they can join in.
Its funny that the CC is trying to act like it doesn’t know how to deal with homosexuals.
Here in the US, actors who were homos got married to make it look like they were straight. So the CC is trying to act like the clergy are all straight. I wonder if anyone is fooled by that?
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Let us leave aside your continuing obsession with homosexuality, and with it the fact that studies show that those who obsess in this way are often suppressing something; let us also leave aside the ease with which you imply the idea that homosexuality in the priesthood is widespread (although if that is not your intention, a simple statement would do), and let us turn to what you mean here.
The statement is a simple expression of pastoral concern, entirely in line with Church teaching. So, let me ask you Bosco, which part of it do you object to? Is it treating homosexuals with respect (rather than, as you do, with ridicule); is it not blaming children for the sins of their parents; or is it the idea of giving guidance on how to deal with same-sex couples?
Or was this just another opportunity to parade your prejudices?
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I like the way you asked that question my brother.
It might seem that I have contempt for homosexuals. As ive said many times, im guilty of homosexuality. Im guilty of everything. And as to objecting to to things… I don’t object to anything. I object to the devil keeping my brothers in chains of darkness. That’s the only thing I object to.
The matter of catholic priests being homos and trying to act like they are all straight….I point it out not because I object…but I do so for everyone to see the humor in it. One might wake up one day and say….hey, you know, Bosco is rite. This religion stuff is a scam. Let me seek the Lord.
This is why I point out the fallacy in religions. Its easy with the CC.
You are not serious when you imply homosexuality in not widespread in the priesthood. You just don’t want to believe it. Its a fact well known that catholic seminaries are solidly homosexual.
Mostholyfamilymonestary.com has that documented to the tee. Plus one can read the news.
Oh, don’t mention the male escourt service that was run inside the Vatican for traveling clergy in town for a few days and wanted some rest and relaxation, and some dude booty. If it was so rare, why have a vending booth? The leaked papers from the popes office confimed that…not that it needed confirming.
No, I don’t hate homos. Homos are people like me. Everyone needs to ask for salvation. I had to ask. Im nothing special.
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Homosexuality is widespread in society. You say it is widespread in the priesthood, but, in so far as they tell us anything, statistics suggest that up to 10% of Catholic priests may be homosexual; now I am no mathematician, but when I studied the subject, that was a minority.
You cite a non-orthodox site for your views; if you go to non-orthodox sites, you will get non-orthodox views.
Your problem seems to me a severe one, which is that you are listening to a spirit who is telling things which no Christian has believed. Is it your pride to which that spirit appeals?
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Yeah, that spirit that tells me about homo priests is the news.
Look at what you are telling me. You are suggesting I go to catholic official sources for the truth about gay priests. maybe….catholic answers. No agenda there. maybe I should ask Cardinal Law if there are any pedophile priests in his parish. After all, hes a cardinal and a holy man of god in the one holy true universal apostololic pure and white church that Christ founded. He can do no wrong or lie to me.
Or maybe I should asl cardinal Mahoney. he wouldn’t lie to me. Hes a cardinal in the one holy apostolic one true catholic universal church. maybe I should asl Father Lawrence, maybe I should ask Father Carpetta.
catholic answers .com. That’s what I will get…is catholic answers.
Maybe I can ask the untold thousands of priest abuse and the uncounted ones that haven’t come forth.
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I have just seen Geoffrey’s comment about you and mainstream media. You cannot be naive enough to think it just gives you the news straight? You will notice it always gives you scandal and bad news; when was the last time you saw a news bulletin with good news? If you spend your time paddling in a sewer, you will smell, and you will think the whole world smells.
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I don’t think ive seen good news in 30 yrs. My atheist friend dave says im always being negative.The best news ive seen is that the Chinese restraunt down the street has a buffet for $5.99
Im trying to get you to leave the CC. Im not going to talk good about it. Anyway, an evil tree cannot bring forth good fruit.
Oh, but the CC has always been pure and white.
The chair of Jupiter , I mean Peter, has been killed for, bought, sold, passed down to bastard sons, split into three, used as a bully pulpit for murder and vice and orgies and a command post for ungodly wars and selling salvation.
Oh, but the CC has schools and hospitals. That’s nice and good. Just don’t tell Jesus that on judgment. hes not big on good works. Oh, he wants us to do good works, but don’t use them as a reason for letting you into heaven
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You seem to have this self-induced belief that someone says the CC is ‘pure and white’; can you show me someone other than yourself who doubts the truth of what St John says, which is that if anyone says he is without sin he is a liar?
No one teaches that good works get you into heaven; though all teach that bad ones get you into hell. Here, I think, could be the heart of your problem.
Do you think that, saying, as you do, that you are saved, that if you killed someone, God would still let you into heaven?
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Now that you ask, yes, if I killed someone, I can still get to heaven. If I shot a school full of kids I can still go to heaven. If I ordain a female priest,i cn still go to heaven. Jesus died for every sin ever committed. haven’t you heard? Maybe you should ask your local costume holyman next time you enter your favorite roman temple if all sins are forgiven, and why didn’t he tell you that sooner.
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Unfortunately for you, Bisco, that is not what Jesus or St Paul taught.
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If you can show me where all sins aren’t paid for, ill go away and never come back. I mean from the KJV.
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You have a habit of conflating things. If our sins are paid for, why the need to judge us? We are saved, we are being saved, and at the last we shall be saved, but if you believe the saved can do anything and still be saved, you need to re-read Paul’s letters to Corinth.
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Who is WE?
Judgement is for the fearful, the whoremongers, the unrighteous. Those who never knew the Lord. Those who are not coved in the blood of the Lamb.
Our sins are paid for, but we have to accept that and stand on it get born again to be coverd in the blood. The new spirit is needed for it all to work. Ask and it shall be given.
The ones coved in the blood don’t get judged. You need to get this new spirit befor you even bother to ask me about the NT. You don’t believe one word I tell you. I go with the face value of scripture, and it never satisfies anyone in here. They want some theological treaties with big words.
Jesus said his burden is light. But the religious don’t want it. Those who go to the grave think the simple words of god are foolishness.
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And where, Bosco, is it written that any man living shall escape the judgement. It isn’t that I don’t believe a word you say, it is that I don’t think you understand a word Jesus says.
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Its not as bad as its sounds. If the saved do something wrong, it is up to them to ask to be forgiven, and the Lord is true and just to forgive us.
You need to open the door and meet Jesus. The scripture is closed to you now. You belong to a religion that does everything scripture says not to do but you still wave the bible under my nose as if its your guide?
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The problem here, Bosco,is this is your made-up religion. This is not what Jesus tells us, nor is it what the bible says. You do not understand Scripture, oddly enough, for the reason you think the rest of us don’t; you are being misled by an evil spirit who has convinced you that he is it evil. Until you escape from him, you will continue to twist scripture to your own damnation.
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entirely in line with Church teaching
Church teaching says homosexuality is a grave evil, and so do I.
So, why are there so many openly gay priests? And at that, all the way to the top of the church leadership? Don’t mention the priests that try to hide it. Then theres the pedophiles. Then theres the ones who are sleeping around with women, all the while professing celibacy. yet you drop your dime in the basket and believe anything they tell you. That is where you trust your salvation? A liar in a costume in a room full of graven images is where you go to get salvation?
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You really do need to find a way to calm your inner demons.
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No, Bosco, I go to Jesus. That Jesus who founded a Church on the rock of Peter. That church, being the true church, is assaulted by demons, and its priests being the successors of the Apostles, are also assaulted by demons.
If you were the devil would you not attack Christ’s Church?
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Haaaahahahahahahahahaha
When them successors to the apostles are rolling around in the sack with their gay buddies, I wonder how attacked they feel.
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Do you think anyone who sins feels attacked?
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So, the sign of gods true church is a wicked clergy eh? Man…you guys need to get with Christ and in a hurry.
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I think, to judge from your comments on the other thread, you need to read St John’s first epistle very carefully.
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obsession with homosexuality, and with it the fact that studies show that those who obsess in this way are often suppressing something;
You caught me. Im a homo.
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That makes sense of the psychological study that says that homosexuality may be linked to narcissism as the person is making love to an image of themselves.
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Is that in the same way you are sometimes a Catholic? 🙂
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Why does the catholic clergy protect pedophile priests? Why did Ratzinger tell bishops to keep a lid on it.? Oh yeah, because its gods true church… No need to ask jesus for salvation. Bosco need to see the light.; Stop asking Jesus for anything and rely on Mary to pray for us when we are on or deathbed. maybe have a statue of mary brought to us just befor we bite the big weenie.
Come to my site and see just that…a statue of Mary being brought to someone on their way out on a hospital bed.
cherrybombcoutour.blogspot.com
sign in and become a member
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Bosco, Bosco, for the same reason that the Democrats accepted Slick Willie’s lying and adultery, and the same reason the Republicans tried to pretend Oliver North had done nothing wrong; institutions, even holy ones, are staffed by people who cover things up. Have you never experienced that?
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But the CC is led by the holy ghost. The deposit of faith thing. The HS does nothing in secret, don’t you know that? Does the holy ghost throw male orgies in St Peters? Say, maybe the CC isn’t led by the HS. Ever thought of that? Maybe you should open that door jesus is knocking on and see what hes up to.
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The CC is protected by the Holy Ghost, but in this world the great enemy sifts us, and some will fail Bosco.
If, in this world of fallen men and women, you seek perfection, you will not find it. If you seek the church founded on the rock of Peter by Christ, there is only one church fits that description, and after nearly two thousand years’ worth of assault by Satan, it stands, though sorely battered.
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Ive always praised you for being realistic. I still do. Just ask Jesus to reveal himself to you personally. You and him together.Wouldnt that be better than looking for him in a batterd church? Wouldn’t a personal relation with him be better than wading thru the wreckage of some organization?
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I wonder why you suppose, Bosco, that I cannot have a personal relationship with him through the church he founded? I think you may have been unfortunate in the Catholics you know, or they have been in the church they have known. Much evil is done accidentally by bad witness, and many give that, Bosco.
I have not always been the best witness to the hope that is in me, and the sinner’s prayer is mine too.
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Olie North was acting under orders. Our govt was giving the sandanistas guns in exchange for cocaine. North over saw getting the drugs to the US. If you remember, gen Secord was tied up in it to. Gen Secord was getting guns to the mid east in exchange for heroin.The heroin was sold in the US for staggering profits and more guns were bought in the US with the money and sent to the mid east and exchanged for more heroin. The US govt says its illegal to bring drugs into the US. England too. Ever notice how easy it is to gewt any drug you want. I can make one phone call and get as much cocain as I want. The politicians get it thru the boarders. Its privateers that get caught.
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My point was that people like to cover their asses.
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Don’t wait too long my brother, to ask jesus to show himself to you. While you seek him in the CC, ask him to show himself. If the CC is leading you to him, cry out to him then, and ask for salvation. One has to want to personally know him. if one thinks that they are good to go brecause of a membership in a org, well, t5hats on them. But theeres no harm in asking him to show himself. Whats the worst that can happen?
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I have asked him – he said walk this way.
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he doesn’t answer with words. He gives you a new spirit. When it happened to a friend of mine, he was all worried and upset. he was scared too. He was wondering what happened to him.
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Do remember Bosco that there are many spirits in this world. Only one is Holy. Many pretend to be.
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Yes, many pretend to be. You need to get born again my brother. It will all fall in place when that happens.
Anyway, logically, how can one have a personal relationship thru someone or thing else? How can I know Abe Lincoln by reading a book? The only way to a personal relationship is to meet and sit down and sup with that person. What kind of personal relation is staring at a cracker in a gold trinket? Huh? What is that? maybe a statue. An icon perhaps. That’s not a personal relation. The pedophile puts the golden monsterance back in the closet and you go home to your TV and velveta nachos. Then do it again next week. Wheres the personal meeting, where you get to know Jesus.? Hes there outside the door. Hes there in person. Hard to believe. I didn’t know it till I met him myself.
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How can you know Lincoln without reading about him Bosco? If a spirit came and told you he was Lincoln, how would you test that he was telling the truth if you knew nothing about Lincoln? I’m not sure you have thought this one through.
Since the bread is the body of Christ, I’d have thought that that was how you had a relationship, too. If you think it’s a cracker, read what Jesus said.
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Just open the door my brother. I cant do it for you. Words wont help/ You need to meet him for yourself. I cant explain anything. I cant save you.
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I know how you feel. We’ve been trying to help you for years, and you continue to fail to understand what Jesus is telling you.
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To save you time, ill put the pic here
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So, you are saying that if a sick person gets comfort from a statue of the mother of Jesus, they should be denied it? Are you that cruel Bosco?
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Bow away, don’t let me stop you. That person who wants a last grab of that idol will have his reward. The road to destruction is wide and many are on it. My job is to warn people that idolatry separates one from Christ. My job it to tell you that Jesus stands at the door and knocks.
Am I so cruel as to deny that person one last lovingly gaze at an idol? no. But one should fear him who would destroy both body and soul in hell. Bosco is not cruel. But hell is forever and its hot.
So now its time to call god cruel. That idolater is most likely in hell right now. And you think im cruel.
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You make assumptions on the basis of a picture about what is in the heart of another; do recall that passage about not judging, Bosco, as you sound, if I amy say so, a little judgmental today.
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By the way, that idol isn’t the mother of Jesus. No one knows what she looked like. And I can bet she wasn’t blond and blue eyed. That person was praying to a demon. Does that satisfy you? That person found comfort in an idol of a demon. Behind every idol is a demon—Paul
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Bosco, you don’t really understand about art do you? Of course no one knows what she looked like. No one knows what Jesus looked like, but it does not stop us having picture of him. You are not one of these strange Taliban-like fellows who wants to destroy fine work of art are you?
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Say good brother, why don’t you join the Chruch of Satan? And why didn’t you choose that church when you were church shopping?
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I never went church shopping, Bosco, I was guided here by the Holy Spirit.
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No one knows what Jesus looked like, but it does not stop us having picture of him.
Um , time for some of that reality good brother.
Who is that a picture of if no one knows what Jesus looked like?
And I never suggest that statues or pictures be destroyed. I can smash a idol but that doesn’t change the idolater. They can just go get another one.
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Do you really suppose people can only paint what they can see? Have you never heard of the imagination, Bosco?
What makes you think someone with a statue of Mary is worshipping her, or the statue? There’s a big assumption in there, Bosco.
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You didn’t join the church of satan because you made a judgment. You decided it wasn’t good. That’s wrong of you. You aren’t supposed to judge. Now I want you to write a letter to the church of satan apologizing for thinking evil of their church.
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You’ve lost me here, Bosco. Why would I apologise for doing something I didn’t do?
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You didn’t join the church of satan. That’s insulting to satan. What, his church isn’t good enough for you. Satan is hurt. Choosing something over another is a judgment call. You say do not judge, but you leave out the rest of the passage that we are to make righteous judgments. When I make a judgment, people in hear jump on me for judging, as you did, I have shown the picture of this sad human reaching out to an idol befor they died. I called that person a idolater and a Mary worshiper. Yes, you all worship Mary. You might not think so. Your costume holyman says youre just venerating her. That’s supposed to shut the non cathols up.
Come on people…if you make a statue of Mary and pray to it and bow befor it, isn’t that worship? Come on, wake up and smell the brimstone. Because that where idolaters go.
Jesus is there to save you. Hey, hes at your door rite now. Go see what he wants.
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Again, you are confused. Jesus asks us not to rush to judge other people harshly, which is what you do. He also says to reject Satan.
No, I can assure you, being of sound mind and sober, I don’t worship Mary. I call her blessed, as the angel said all generations would.
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We are to make righteous judgments. Judge not after the eyes, but after the spirit. If you keep reading that passage you will see that.
Uh oh, Jesus broke his own law. He called the Pharisees vipers. Oh no, he judged them. Woe is me.
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Jesus was the Son of God; I think you may not be.
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Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?
Many more examples
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Even the gates of hell will not prevail against his church; his words.
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If the gates of hell wont prevail against the CC why is vice and wickedness so prevalent? Anyway, what is your plan for judgment day my good brother? May I ask? What are you gonna say to Jesus? Why should he let you into his rest?
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Jesus did not say the Gates of hell would not attack his church; he promised they would not prevail. My plan is to let the only Just Judge do the judging.
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So, you plan to get judged?
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God will do that.
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God will judge you? Is that what you are saying good brother Chalcedon? Help me out here. Are you planning on being judged is what im asking.
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God is planning on judging us all.
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Ok, now weve got to the heart of the matter. This is what the whole plan of salvation is about. First, let me say…Chalcedon, tonite , invite Jesus into your life. Do it.
Now, listen up. What sentence would you or anyone get if god judged you?
Guilty.
The saved don’t get judged.
Know ye not that the saints will judge the world?
Once one is born again god sees the righteousness of Christ on us. We are coverd in his blood. A big destroying hot wind is going to pass over creation and will destroy everything…except the righteousness of Christ. Being coverd in his blood will make us immune to the wrath of god. The last day is called the Terrible Day of the Lord. It will come one day. If all you can say is that you did what your priest told you , it will be a terrible day.
Get born again
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Now, where are we told that anyone escapes being judged? All will be judged Bosco. God alone judges. You must explain where you get the idea that the saints do the judging. I suspect you are misreading Revelation, which must have misled more people than anything.
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C, I believe Bosco is reading wrongly the words of 1 Corinthians 6:3: “3 Do you not know that we are to judge angels—to say nothing of ordinary matters?”
This is where Paul is exhorting the Christians (whom he calls saints) to settle legal matters among themselves and within the Church. It is much more a defense of our arguments that we must test the spirits an affirm wither we are dealing with an angel from Heaven or a angel from Hell.
It is God who judges all of us when this life is over and Bosco does not believe it where the rest of Christendom does.
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Thank you Servus. It seems as though there is no limit to the eisegesis.
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I should add that alternately the reading implies that those who become saints in heaven will share in the reign of Christ: which is how the Ignatius Bible renders it. I have seen both but neither are in agreement with the ideas that Bosco holds.
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Quite so. It is, I think, a very contemporary thing, this ignoring of the wisdom of the past and preferring our own unaided reading, although, if I am understanding Bosco aright, he is claiming his reading is not unaided, but guided by the spirit in him; it is that which worried me.
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That, I think, is the whole of it. He is led by this spirit to a point where even if the scriptures say otherwise, he will not believe them.
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I am afraid so.
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Ill get back to you on that one. Now I have to go eat and check on a job. Nice talking with you.
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You too, Bosco. Although some here ridicule you, I try to understand where you are coming from. Since it appears to be the current fashion to quote you in posts, I may follow suite.
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Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.
And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.
And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
Jesus is in heaven rite now in the body he left here in. he is our kinsman redeemer.
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Has anyone denied this?
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No one has denied this. Ive been ridiculed for saying Jesus is a man.
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No, you have been criticised for saying he is only a man. Not quite the sane thing.
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The people that level that charge against me are blind and dumb dogs. They have nothing concrete to smear me with. They are enraged that I offer the living Christ up to them. They are enraged that I tell them they need to open the door to Christ. They think they have it all. They go to their little church gathering where the minister tells them they are all saved and going to heaven. The minister is a liar and they are blind as him, and both will fall into the ditch. They lash out at me because I shatter that illusion. Yes, it hurts. They see me as the cause of that pain they feel. So time to accuse Bosco of anything and everything. make that pain go away. Yes, Bosco is just a liar and makes things up…there that’s better…I feel much better now that I told that stupid stinky ol Bosco off.
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That wasn’t how anyone else read Geoffrey’s post. He was showing you how St John encountered those who claimed special revelation, and where they were wrong. You appear to hold Modalism views (Google it). This is not the Jesus of the Bible.
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Modalist.
What ever that is.
Get saved and follow the Lamb. Isms and schisms and the rest be damned.
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You can only follow the Lamb if you know him.
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