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Catholic Church, Catholicism, Christianity, cousin Elizabeth, Jesus is God, Marian Devotion, orthodoxy
Today marks the feast of the Visitation of the Blessed Virgin to her cousin Elizabeth, with today’s reading from Luke as our source. It is one of the oddest of the odd things about some types of Protestantism that despite the clearest of Gospel accounts that Mary is to be accounted ‘blessed’ in all generations, some Protestants are so disrespectful of her; perhaps it is an anti-Catholic reflex? Perhaps it is a reflection of the patriarchal nature of a Christianity emptied of the veneration which the Church has always given to the Mother of God? Our own Bosco seems to insist God has no mother. That makes him a heretic if he believes it. Jesus is God Incarnate, and Mary gave birth to Him, which is why the Council of Ephesus has pronounced her ‘Theotokos’, or the ‘God bearer’; if Bosco believes Jesus is God, then he must believe Mary, as the mother of Jesus, is the God-bearer, or Mother of God; if he does not believe that then he does not believe Jesus is God and is not a Christian.
We see, here, on the feast of the Visitation, the courage of Our Lady, as well as her compassion. She goes out, alone, to the hill country, to see her much older cousin, Elizabeth, whom all had thought barren; she finds her great with child. Then, in one of the first witnessings to the Christ child in her own womb, John the Baptist leaps in the womb of Elizabeth; the children exult and the mothers exult. Whoever opens his or her heart to the mother, opens it to the Son, and I know that Jessica, on her way to the great shrine of Walsingham, finds in Our Lady a ready path to Christ. Mary is, Elizabeth says, blessed because she believed; Mary is the first believer, the first disciple, the one who gives herself first to her son; she is the model of perfect obedience. Where Zarachias had not believed and had been struck dumb, Our Lady did believe and gave voice to that greatest of hymns which we call ‘the Magnificat’
The source for that, as for all of this part of Luke can only have been Our Lady herself. Luke recorded much eye-witness testimony, and was the one evangelist who took extensive notes from the Blessed Virgin. We see here, in this story, the model of the perfect disciple in her compassion and desire to serve. In her faithfulness she speaks prophetically. All generations will call her blessed, she foretells, and so, at least the generations of the Catholics and the Orthodox have done. Quite how Bible-believing Protestants square their attitude with the words of the Bible itself, I cannot understand – after all, their Bibles contain that prophetic hymn.
Our Lady not only believed in faith and obeyed, she also pondered these things in her heart. She is our model here, too, for we must also receive His word and meditate upon it. If, like her, we can so compose ourselves that we receive what the Lord tells us and obey His holy Word, then our spirit, too, will be filled with His joy, and we can join those who, from that time to this have proclaimed the name of Mary ‘blessed’. Mother of God, mother of us all, pray for us now, and at the hour of our death.
“Mary, as the mother of Jesus, is the God-bearer, or Mother of God; if he does not believe that then he does not believe Jesus is God and is not a Christian.”
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And your answer?
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My answer is…..”if you say so my brother”
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I see you don’t believe the Bible Bosco – it tells you so.
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“Indeed, in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. I appeal to you, then, be imitators of me.” __ 1 Cor. 4:15,16
Seems odd that many Protestants have no problem with the above from St. Paul in Holy Scripture but find problems with Catholics who would call Her Mother and want to imitate her; especially in Her profound humility. If Paul can say that he became our father through the gospel then how much more Mary becomes our Mother through the gospel; having given birth to Christ Himself Who is the Good News.
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It is very odd, Servus, very odd indeed.
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“She goes out, alone, to the hill country, to see her much older cousin, Elizabeth,”
That is what the bible says.
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
My beloved catholic church says brother means cousin(in order to protect Marys perpetual virginity) so cousin must mean sister. Elizabeth was Marys sister.
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I wouldn’t go that far Bosco. Do you believe Mary should be called ‘blessed’? If so, I look forward to you saying so.
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Mary is blessed AMONGST women, not above women. Who wouldn’t agree Mary is blessed? There is none greater born of a woman than John the Baptist. Jesus own words. He never extolled good sister Mary like that. Lots of people are blessed. Blessed are they who have not seen but believe. Our beloeved church turns everything into the visual….god as a cracker etc etc…all for the eyes. We cathols are not blessed because we only believe what we see.
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I see you can’t just call her ‘blessed’ – do remind us of who else had the special honour of carrying God Incarnate in their womb.
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Ive noticed catholic folklore has Marys body as the Ark. And her womb as something special. Flesh. Its just flesh. Its not hallowed ground. Its dirty filthy flesh. But our CC has turned it into some kind of big deal. Jesus didn’t think so much of it. He called sister Mary “woman”. he didn’t call her “oh virgin queen” or “Bearer of all grace”. he said ” woman, what have I to do with thee” Once he wouldn’t even come out to see her when she was calling. The bible doesn’t support the catholic Mary. Its a nasty trick. If one dies expecting Mary to pray for him….well, too bad. Youll wake up in hell with everyone else that trusted in everything but Jesus. I have pics in my site of old sick dying people in hospital beds groping a statue of Mary, or what the CC calls Mary.
Tell me…where will these people go when they die staring at a graven image for help?
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Keep on proving you are among the unsaved Bosco. Blessed art thou, and Blessed art the fruit of thy womb, says Scripture – ‘filthy flesh’ says the unsaved.
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I got no probs with that my brother. Blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
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Good.
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I think C hits upon it when he says that much of it is anti-Catholicism from the old days, and now has become tradition. My church provides a ready example, Luther indeed venerated Her for all of his days but it has mostly, although not entirely disappeared. In fact, if you mention it much, you will be referred to as “too Catholic” as if that were a bad thing.
But in truth, for the most part Protestants don’t ignore the passage, and the respect and love is there, just not publicly (in my experience, at least). I will say this, as I did yesterday, Jess’ dependance on Her, and it’s visible results, have made a very deep impression on me, for I too, have seen Her work.
Changed my life? No, that would be saying too much, at least at this point but, it is one of the things that has caused me to open my eyes and look around and see far more clearly. But then, I am, mostly, a rationalist, as are many Protestants, and that too may be a factor, as our churches have dropped a lot of the mystical, and I think we are the poorer for it.
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That could well be so Neo. I think Protestantism lost a lot by going down this route.
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I agree with you. I also think that most of us, unless we wander into something like this, never even begin to understand what we lost. I thank you all for that, in my case, at least.
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I think so, Neo. I see Bosco is running – but he can’t hide 🙂
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’bout time! I had a few thing to say to him on the same subject last night but, I don’t know enough about it to be very effective. I’ll set up the blocking position though. 🙂
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Good man 🙂
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Sir! 🙂
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What mystical stuff would you like to see Protestantism bring back good brother Neo?
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Answer C’s question, Bosco. Quit evading it.
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If something in scripture contradicts church teaching, we cathols simply say ” it doesn’t mean what it says”
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So, Bosco, is Mary the Mother of God or not?
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Jesus is the son of man. He shed his divinity to become man. Good sister Mary is the mother of a man. She was used as a vehicle, and that is the only thing remarkable about her. Other than that, she is just like the rest of us humans.
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You are not a Christian, Bosco. Jesus is God Incarnate, and if you do not believe that you are a heathen.
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Jesus is always and everywhere a Divine Person Bosco; He did not ‘shed’ His Divinity. He is God in human vesture; adopting a fully human nature whilst keeping a fully Divine nature as well. His personhood, however, is only Divine – not human. You hold to errors that were refuted by Christians early on. How can you bear the name Christian when you don’t even hold with the basics of Christianity?
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Bosco has no idea who Jesus is. Whoever he met on that bus, it was not who he says it was.
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Simply a nightmare, I suppose, caused by a spicy pizza perhaps?
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Thanks good brother servus. You reminded me I should get off the computer and start the dough for pizza. I make my own bread dough. I bought the cheese and pepperoni already.
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Well, good brother Servus said Jesus was fully man. And he said jesus was divine. So he agrees Jesus is fully man. Whats wrong with me believing Mary is the mother of a man?
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You really don’t get it. Jesus is both human and divine, not one or the other. Read what Severus wrote again.
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Well, you know, I fully agree with good brother Servus. No ifs ands or buts
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Servus says she is.
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Its my understanding that god has no mother, but the man Jesus in the flesh does.
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But you just said Jesus was God. You seem a tad confused.
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“If Paul can say that he became our father through the gospel then how much more Mary becomes our Mother ”
Mark Shea, the famous apologist, uses the word “therefor ” a lot in his 3 books on Mary, which he personally sent me free of charge about 6 yrs ago.
If good brother Paul is our father in the gospel, therefor Mary is our mother.
Therefor is used as…..”well, its not in the bible and is even contrary to scripture, but heres hoping you buy this anyway”
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Still evading answering the question I see, Bosco?
You can run but not hide. Do you believe Mary is the Mother of God? Remember, if you say no, you are saying that Jesus is not God, and revealing that you are not a Christian; as you would put it, just sayin’
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This is OT, so i crave your indulgence, C. because I don’t have enough for a post. As I’m sure many are aware Maya Angelou died this week. I was not a fan of hers, and most of her work that I saw I disagreed with. But like all of us, she was many things to many people. But this (which I just ran across) could easily serve as my eulogy as well.
When I say… “I am a Christian” by Maya Angelou
“When I say… “I am a Christian”
I’m not shouting “I’m clean livin’.”
I’m whispering “I was lost,
Now I’m found and forgiven.”
When I say… “I am a Christian”
I don’t speak of this with pride.
I’m confessing that I stumble
and need Christ to be my guide.
When I say… “I am a Christian”
I’m not trying to be strong.
I’m professing that I’m weak
And need His strength to carry on.
When I say… “I am a Christian”
I’m not bragging of success.
I’m admitting I have failed
And need God to clean my mess.
When I say… “I am a Christian”
I’m not claiming to be perfect,
My flaws are far too visible
But, God believes I am worth it.”
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That, is an excellent poem – thanks for sharing it 🙂
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I think so as well, thank you. 🙂
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An excellent poem.
You will see Bosco has exposed himself as a fraud.
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Yep, and why am I not surprised. Lake all such, out of his own mouth, well keyboard, anyway.
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Alas, it appears not to be as thought http://www.snopes.com/glurge/christian.asp
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Ah, sad, really, although she did have decency to completely deny it was hers. One of the problems of the internet, of course, is that attributions often get messed up.
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Indeed.
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🙂
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Good poem
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In John 8:40, this is written:
but now you are trying to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. (NRSV)
Clearly and unmistakably Jesus said that;
•”He is a Man”
Jesus is in heaven as a man rite now. He is as he was taken up, and as he shall come back down.
Are we to use our logic to explain the ways of god? Or do we select things to keep alive shabby doctrine, such as good sister Mary is all powerful and is queen of heaven. And even has a throne in heaven.
Time for some “therefors”
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Bosco, you are a heathen, just keep on proving you do not know Jesus at all, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God.
So, was Jesus not the Word, Bosco? If so He was in the beginning with God and was God.
You are a fraud Bosco, you have never met Jesus and have not the slightest idea who He is.
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Oh, and no, sister Mary is not the mother of God. God has no beginning. Mother of god teaches the young to believe sister Mary is above god being his mother. That explains why catholic believe that false notion…because they were taught it from birth. That’s why cathols die with good sister Mary on their lips. Its just too bad. jesus never told us to ask anyone else for salvation. But, Satan says…..”yea, god hath said….BUT” Jesus said come to me all who are heavy laden. Satan say “no, go to this Mary to get you to Jesus.” Satan says to go to a bunch of dead men to pray for you. Saul disobeyed and consulted the dead, and got what was coming to him for it.
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Jesus is God Incarnate – He was in the beginning with God and He is God – which is why, as you believe he was just a man, you have more in common with Islam than you have with Christianity, Bosco.
Non Christians cannot understand Scripture, and you show that you are neither saved, a Christian, nor do you understand the Scriptures. You jabber away like a heathen, quoting out of context a book you fail to understand.
How can a mere man be in the beginning with God and be God, Bosco? Explain the beginning of John’s Gospel to us as you understand it.
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Jesus became a man when he was born. Of course he was god befor all that. Come on….give me a break.
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He remained God. He who has seen me has seen the Father, he said. Now, unless you believe the Father is a man, then Jesus must be God if he and the Father are one,
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No problem there good brother. I agree, and so does scripture.We agree on everything except that there is a virgin queen of heaven. That’s a trick to get your eyes off Christ. Ive seen catholic kiddie shows where the kids sing and dance all about Mary. They sang a disgusting song about Mary our Mother. Wanted to flash, as they say in England. Kids, taught idolatry. Mary isn’t their mother. She cant see them or hear them, but the priest stands in the shadow wringing his hands in delight. As long as the kids sing and dance for Mary, the priest is happy. Don’t dare bring up Jesus as the only way. The CC teaches that the only way to Jesus is thru Mary.
Its not too late to get to know Christ. And no, no second chance purgatory. That’s just a money maker for the CC. It made more money than the Vatican run brothels.
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The issue you are trying to avoid is that either you believe that Jesus is God and man, in which case Mary is the mother of God, or he is not and she is not.
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Good brother Chalcedon, was Jesus a man? A simple yes or no please and thank you.
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Pray tell, if Jesus is ‘just a man,’ then how could his death pay for our sins against God? No wonder you think Mary is ‘just a woman,’ and do not afford to Her the dignity of being the Mother of Lord and our God.
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Jesus was our kinsman, one of us, but he was without blemish. He was the Lamb of god, born to be a sacrifice for us. I can understand that, but being mortal, many things are a mystery to me. Being spotless, he was to be our scapegoat and sacrifice. . Good brother Servus, scripture says he was a man…so who am I to argue?
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He became man, Bosco but that did not invalidate or destroy His Divinity which is eternal. Is the Holy Spirit the Divine Spouse of Mary? What mere man do you know that has the Holy Spirit as their progenitor? Is the offspring of God (His only begotten Son) a mere man then? You hold to a strange religion and worship a God that is very different from that of Christianity.
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He shed his divinity and became man. He had to be fed by mommie, he has to wash and go to the toilet and even work for a living. He also created the heaven and earth. But he became our kinsman to redeem us. I think we are on same page. But I disagree Mary is mother of god. She is Jesus mom, and jesus was born a man. You cant kill god or pluck his beard off. At least I wouldn’t try it.
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Jesus remained divine. If you do not understand that, you don’t know Him.
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You’re right; you can’t kill God; at least not for good. But in our terms, yes, His crucifixion was Deicide. That is why He rose from the dead, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity and later ascended into Heaven.
Can our souls be killed, Bosco? They can kill the body but the soul is in made in the image and likeness of God and is eviternal. But our souls are not God, though they were made to be happy with God forever. Hope you make there, my friend, for the alternative is separation for eternity.
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I plan on seeing both of you at the supper.
Our souls cannot be killed, scripture says so. We do go somewhere.Its all how you view things. If you want to elevate a mortal to being co redemtrix, you can say the redemtrix is special. A special human with a throne in heaven. If one wants Mary to be a ordinary human, then she gave birth to a man. It doesn’t make sister Mary all powerful in heaven, but if you want her to be all powerful, then that’s on you. I cant stop people for wanting what they want. But if one wants salvation, one must ask it from Jesus, and no one else. Oh, one can ask in the name of anyone they please. That’s why the lake of fire is big, cause lots of people will be in it. Its not false believe that lands one in hell, its not being born again that gets one there. Its like youre walking down the street, minding your own business, and some guy says…hi, im the creator of heaven and earth. Well, now you have met him and know what he is about. Your false ideas then disappear. The gold cups and the costumes becomeworthless after you meet the man. Let the idolaters have the costumes and crackers and gold cups, …you’ve got the creator of heaven and earth walking with you.
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Mary gave birth to God Incarnate. Scripture says so. You either believe the Good Book or you don’t.
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Jesus was God Incarnate as man – he was both God and Man – as you would know if you had been within a block of Him.
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Good brother Chalcedon, you agree with me that Jesus was a man. We do have something in common.
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Jesus was the Godman – as the Scriptures show – both God and Man. we cannot be saved by a man alone.
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Fully god and fully man. So either is correct. If I say hes a man, im fully correct. If I say good sister Mary gave birth to a man, im fully correct…nest pas?
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No – BOTH are correct, not either. No, you are wrong if you say Mary gave birth to just a man. You really don’t have a clue who Jesus is, do you?
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Im not concerned with what Jesus was. I met him, so I do know him. You can say I don’t know him, but, I met him…that’s all I know.
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He was and is God. If you had met him, you would know that.
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Yes, I know that. I knew that when it dawned on me that I knew him. I didn’t know it at first. I didn’t know what was going on. I knew that when I was reading the bible, that I was seeing someone I knew. He let me know he was there too. That’s why I don’t give an inch when people get upset when I say they need to get to know him. Too bad. Im not going to tell you that you know him when you don’t. I could get into more trouble than im already in. He would deal harshly with me for that. Priests and ministers and televangelists speak softly to the people. They and their followers will wake up in hell.
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What matters is you know He is both God and man; no other saves us.
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5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus,
On earth, Jesus was a man. This is clear. He shed his divinity. At the same time, he created the heavens and the earth. He has the ability to shed his divine nature. He is our kinsman. Our kindsman redeemer….is he not?
A colorful “therefor” is needed about now.
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Bosco, Jesus was both man and God. If he was just a man, how did his death redeem us? Do explain, it should be fun.
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Well good brother Chalcedon, ill give the explanation the bible gives. Jesus was ALSO, a Lamb. Add that to being a man and god. He is also a Branch. He is also a Servant. He is also a Lion. Why are you amazed that Jesus wears a man hat?Good brother John went to heaven and saw a Lamb, as it had been crucified. Jesus was slain befor the foundations of the world. I cant explain it in earthly terms and its not fair to expect me to clear that up.
His death redeemd us because he was a Lamb without spot. God laid all our sins on him and then killed him and buried him. And he took our sins away with him
But no, my beloved CC says he didn’t pay for all of them. Now who is being blasphemous?
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Bosco, you really do not know how to read Scripture at all do you? Lamb and vine etc are metaphors, images (yes, I know how much you hate them, but they are there in the Bible). His death redeemed us because only God could atone for the sins of man – unless, of course, you really believe that the sacrifice of a lamb could do it.
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lamb is a metaphore for what.. a lamb?. Good brother said he saw a Lamb with seven eyes..
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Jesus was not actually a lamb, Bosco – he is compared to the lamb sacrificed at the Passover. I think Revelation should be kept from the illiterate.
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Well you know good brother Chalcedon, John said he saw a Lamb with 7 eyes and it had been slain. What am I gonna do? He said he saw it, and im gonna believe him. Its not that important for salvation. Being born again is first, then all the little by the ways come next. First, one needs to get saved, then worry about what things look like. The saved don’t look to some female for salvation or grace and do not pray to some tribal virgin queen. If one is tricked into believing in some virgin queen of heaven, they usually are tricked into other false assumptions in order to justify the first big false assumption. One lie follows another. John didn’t see a queen of heaven or a throne for her.
Virgin queen, celibate priests, celibate nuns. Our beloved CC is obsessed with sex. As food is to the anorexic and the morbidly obese, so is sex to the catholic church.
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The saved know Jesus is God. The unsaved think he is just a man.
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Our beloved CC is currently having trouble maintaining the celibacy ruse. Ive met many ex catholics who saw thru the virgin queen trick and were repulsed that they were fooled for as long as they were. They decided to check scripture for themselves and found out what their church and priests have been hiding from them. They are very glad to have caught it in time befor they died in a false religion.
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Bosco, there’s no use you quoting other unsaved people who have no idea how to read Scripture; I hope you all eventually meet Jesus in time.
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Gosh, I wasn’t aware I quoted some unsaved person. That’s not my habit. I do cut and paste things all kinds of stuff from different people. But when I quote scripture, I quote scripture. I believe brother means brother and Lamb means Lamb. I believe all have sinned and come short, that included this Mary the Cc waves about.
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So, you believe that Jesus was not God. Fine, that means you don’t know him.
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Bosco, I share your reverence for the inspired Word of God and your confidence in having met Jesus personally. But I think “shed his divinity” (like a snake sheds its skin?) is not taught by the Bible, and is a metaphor which will get you in trouble. The fact that Jesus did not stop being God when he became incarnate is proven by Paul’s statement, “in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form” (Colossians 2:9), and is implied by Jesus’s own statement that “the Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath” (Matt 12:8). After all, who has authority over the Sabbath but God who instituted the Sabbath? Jesus also said, “I and the Father are one” (John 10:30), which, while not precise, probably should be understood to imply that Jesus is still God. Again, Jesus said, “Just as the Father has life in himself, even so he gave to the Son also to have life in himself” (John 5:26), which expressly states that a divine attribute held by God the Father is also held by Jesus as the Son of God. The opponents of Jesus understood him to be claiming to be God (John 5:18). The logic of John 1:14 presumes that the Word of God (who was God and with God, according to John 1:1) dwelt among humanity (i.e. became incarnate) while still possessing the “glory as of the only begotten from the Father.” And the prayer of Jesus in John 17 states not only that the Father is in Jesus, but also that Jesus is in the Father, and Jesus prayed that during the time between his birth and his crucifixion. (There’s also a textual variant at John 3:13, where the reading that I suspect is correct (for various technical reasons) states that Jesus while incarnate is in fact still present in heaven.) True, Jesus did not go around saying, “I am God,” but had he done so he would simply have been misunderstood by those around him. Instead, he taught (and the Bible teaches) that he is God even while incarnate. (By the way, the incarnation didn’t stop with the crucifixion and burial; Jesus was raised bodily from the dead. So if Jesus is God and incarnate as a person now, there is no reason he couldn’t be both God and human from his birth.)
Some people say that Jesus stopped using his divine powers during his incarnation (or, as I have seen a few people state it crudely, that Jesus stopped being God), usually citing Philippians 2:6-8, that Jesus “did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself.” The question is what he “emptied himself” of. It’s parallel to Paul’s phrase in the next verse that “he humbled himself,” and is explained in its own verse by “taking the form of a slave, and being made in the likeness of men.” In other words, Paul is talking about Jesus choosing to give up his divine glory and the divine prerogative of commanding worship, in order to become what we are. The paradox here is that Jesus “emptied himself” not by giving up what he had, but by taking on himself our own nature, which was empty and lacking in any virtue.
Your king analogy works better than you think. The king doesn’t cease to be the king when he takes off his crown; he just ceases to be recognizable as the king to those who do not know him. So Jesus, when he was born, did not cease to be God, but was not recognizable as God by those who did not know God.
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You, my brothers, are asking me to make a definitive statement on how Jesus was fully god and fully man. This is beyond the scope of my mental capacity. To me it is a mystery. Ive wonderd how he did it myself, and I still don’t know.
I guess its like being a king. When you take the crown off, youre not king, and can go out among the people as one of them. But go back to the palace and put on the crown, and youre king again….I guess…I dunno.
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Some of us Bible-believing Protestants have no trouble calling Mary blessed…
I made the same argument about “theotokos” to a Lutheran friend of mine years ago. I think, to the degree that it remains controversial, it’s because of an ambiguity in the referent of the word “God” (both in Greek and English, and many other languages). “God” refers both to each of the divine Persons individually (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) and to the divine Nature shared by them. Since Jesus is fully God and fully human, his mother Mary gave birth to God (i.e., to him who is God); but since Mary is not the mother of God the Father or God the Holy Spirit, or the mother of the divine Nature (it’s not clear how one could be a mother of a nature), Mary is not in that sense “Mother of God.” Most Orthodox and Roman Catholics I have discussed this with think it bizarre that anyone would interpret “Theotokos” or “Mother of God” in this latter manner, but I have known many devout Christians for whom that was their intuitive interpretation regarding the meaning of the phrase (and therefore they opposed using the phrase). But basically all Orthodox, Protestants, and Roman Catholics agree that the blessed virgin Mary is the mother of Jesus, who is God, yet not the mother of the other divine Persons or the divine Nature. This is not a point of doctrinal dispute, but of misinterpretation.
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(Glad to have found a spot of wireless access, but still unstable for the week ahead.)
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I am glad you did – your last to Bosco was superb! Hope the moving is going well.
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Great explanation good brother Theo, ill buy that one.
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I agree. Some of it comes from an incomplete appreciation of the doctrine of the Trinity, which you explain very well here.
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some Protestants are so disrespectful of her
I don’t think this is intent. We just don’t believe in what Bosco very well put it : the “Catholic Mary”. Just because Protestants do don’t accept the Catholic Mary Doctrine is not a matter of disrespect to Mary. It is a matter of being dismissive of elements of Catholic tradition re Mary. Most certainly she is to be venerated.
A whole convoluted theology has been invented by the RCC to attempt the legitimization of the Catholic Mary. It is about Jesus not Mary and her alleged magical powers of which Hera herself would be envious. .
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