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The Old Testament is not, at least on my reading of it, big on forgiveness; this may be why it is cited so much more often than the New by those who seem to have trouble with forgiveness. But Jesus tells us that our righteousness must exceed that of the Pharisees. We are not simply not to kill (though we certainly must not kill), if we are angry with out brother we are liable to judgment. We are not simply to refrain from harming others, we are positively enjoined to care for those; and for those who want to smite their opponents, Jesus advises turning the other cheek; no wonder those who cannot even begin to contemplate doing this resort to the Old Testament; they seem to like the muscular God there- even as some of them rail against the Jews, it is the Jewish God they crave.
The Jews and the Samaritans hated each other, and yet twice in the Gospels we find the latter behaving much better than the former. The story of the Good Samaritan is well-known, and he was good because he showed love where he had received none, and mercy where he would have received none; he followed the precepts of the Gospel because they were written in a good heart. But there is also the Samaritan woman at the well, a sinner by her own admission, but she recognised Christ where most Jews did not. She was prepared to love her neighbour as hersef, and to acknowledge Jesus for who he is; these things came to her through faith and a humble heart. There is a type of Christian who feels that it is up to him (always a him) to insult others – these folk profane themselves by citing Saints as examples, as though they are saints and as though saints never sinned. We have a couple of those here – the tweedle-dee and tweedle-dum of AATW.
I saw that poor old QV, during his last meltdown, cited Christ judging the Pharisees as justification for him not acting according to Matthew 5:21-22; I think when folk start comparing themselves to Christ it is time to look in the mirror and have a lie down. We are called to forgive, not to condemn. Much of the damage Christianity has done to itself is down to fanatics persecuting others in the name of a God who so loved us that He suffered for us; those who do not see the profanity in this are in need of prayer – and a love which they have perhaps never received and so cannot give. During this Lenten period, we are called to renounce something and take up something. One of those might be to take up doing what Christ told us to do, and to set aside doing those things he told us not to do. For some of us, including me, that is a hard enough row to plough.
Jesus died for us though we are sinners; He showed us mercy though we do not deserve it; if we cannot even begin to do that with other sinners, then whoever it is we claim we follow, it is not Jesus – it is our own idea of him – which is not the same thing.
The Old Testament isn’t big on forgiveness? Have you ever read it? Leviticus 26:40-45 is a start. All throughout the Old Testament God constantly stays with the Israelites who constantly turn away from him. God declares Tamar, a prostitute, righteous, saves Lot from his deserved destruction, and shatters Jonah’s nationalism by forgiving the city of Nineveh. In addition to this, he also ends up reaching out to the Babylonians while they are holding the Israelites captive. The Old Testament is tainted with forgiveness all over it. When did God slay David? No where. Yet David had seven wives, murdered a man, and committed adultery.
Ps. 139:11-12 If I say, “Let only darkness cover me,
and the light about me be night,”
even the darkness is not dark to thee,
the night is bright as the day;
for darkness is as light with thee.
Isaiah 50:2 Why, when I came, was there no man?
When I called, was there no one to answer?
Is my hand shortened, that it cannot redeem?
Or have I no power to deliver?
Behold, by my rebuke I dry up the sea,
I make the rivers a desert;
their fish stink for lack of water,
and die of thirst.
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It is also big on killing your enemies – viz Amalekites et al. This is why QV likes it – no lovey dovey stuff.
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in the context of an already on-going war. but then again, i’m not really an ot scholar so my interpretation could be wrong. i think that solomon makes it clear “there is a time for war and a time for peace”. killing in battle does not necessarily mean we are to murder our enemies or hate our enemies.
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We do need to work together better. Where we see error it should be addressed in love. Always in love. I do disagree with you about the Old Testament though. I find a lot of forgiveness on it. True there is a lot of judgment but there is mercy too.
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Good oint Joseph – I should have clarified that I was talking about the use some folk make offf it.
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🙂
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Indeed, it might be helpful to emulate Christ when He told His Apostles to ‘learn from me for I am meek and humble of heart.’ We then see this humility of Christ unfold as He takes the place of a servant in washing the feet of His Apostles and later when He (God in human vesture) is obedient even to those who persecute Him and put Him to death. And His cry to His Father in Heaven? It was not for revenge that He pleaded. He asked His Father in Heaven to forgive them. And truly, certainly most, did not know what they were doing. Might it not be the same today?
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I think so, my friend – as so often the answer lies in seeking to imitate His example.
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Strikes me that there is an echo of GK Chesterton in here, specifically his comment that, “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”
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Very true, Neo – we shy away from it because it goes against the grain of our fallen nature.
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As does the hard work involved in disciplining ourselves.
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Yes, goodness me, self-discipline – not natural 🙂
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Certainly not, merely effective 🙂
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There is a part of St. Ephrem’s prayer that I strive to keep in mind, “Lord keep me aware of my own sins so I do not think ill of my neighbor.” When I forget that, I always fall into the sins of pride, gossip, and judgement, and it darkens my heart.
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Forgive ? Have you ever had an ex wife train your 2 year old daughter to do things with an anatomical with genitalia doll that the psychiatrists use to determine if child subjected to molestation? Then repeat the child’s performance with obvious coaching at the office of the authorities on film so you could be formally charged with this crime? Then being exonerated after an 18 month investigation with all the pain that comes with that and have the process repeated with another accusation? Another 18 months ? Forgive? That was almost 30 years ago. Forget me. Look what was done to that little girl by her own mother in an attempt to have me locked up in prison forever. Forgive? Not me.
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A 12-Step program in which I also participate calls for forgiveness too. I get to pull a fast one by praying for God’s will for her. It’s gonna happen that way anyway.
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Of coure you believe you’re right, you always do – but I hate to break this to you, you are often wrong. You have not a clue old son, not a blooming clue – one day you may grow up and become sensible and realise what an utter idiot you look; my betting is not, and that you end up one of those nutty fellas who thinks he is the church – and even then you’ll quarrel with yourself. You are not Christ, you are a very silly young man who needs to get out and live.
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By your own admission you have passed from one church to one church in short periods of time. No doubt each time you thought you were right and became more zealous than those who were more stable; it is always the way with your sort.
Since this is a free country, I have as much right to my opinion on the Pope as anyone. But I see you now call him the Pope. Have you changed your mind yet again?
My position is clear. God gave the Ten Commandments to the Jews. The Jews worship that God. If you don’t get that then you are a bigger fool than you appear to be.
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Which part of God giving the ten commonadments to the Jews and our using their Scriptures applies to the sons of Ishmael?
According to yo, I’m a heretic, and yet I have worshipped the Living God these sixty odd years, and where he put me, not hawked my beliefs from place to place like a spiritual whore looking for a punter who’ll buy me.
Do you know any non-Chalecedonians? I do, and the Coptic monks I know are closer to God than anyone I have met save my old Catholic friend.
You have not the beginnings of the Grace in your spirit. Read 1 Corinthinas 13 if you want to know why your head is being done in. When you learn to love and stop acting as though you are the Pope, you may get somewhere.
My walk with God brings me love and peace and community with all – what does yours bring you?
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