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Our resident humourist. Bosco, seems to think that reading the Bible is a bit of a waste of time – after all, if you are ‘saved’ what more do you need? Why, for example, bother to reflect on what St John’s Gospel has to say about Peter and John? The answer lies in Bosco’s own reflection. From what we can tell of it, the Johannine community, rather like Bosco and others here, put a great deal of weight on personal revelation and the in-dwelling of the Spirit. That was fine until different members of the Community disagreed on something as fundamental as whether Jesus was God Incarnate: who was right? Well, if both sides claimed the Spirit as the sanction for their belief, then there was no way of answering the question; indeed, such a division of opinion threw doubt on the whole idea that being inspired by the Spirit was enough. How could that be so when the Spirit seemed to be telling believers something different?
No less a figure than St John was telling his church that Jesus was the Word Incarnate, that Christ had come in the flesh; but others denied that, as we see in John’s second epistle. Indeed, we see from the third epistle that a local elder, Diotrephes, was denying John himself, and those who adhered to him, fellowship. Here was a fellow who was full of himself and so clear he was guided that he denied even one of the Apostles; how ‘Spirit-filled’ was that? How often in the history of Christianity have we seen the same phenomenon? And how should it not be so? If you are convinced you are filled with, and guided by, the Holy Spirit, the natural tendency of man to stubborn pride is increased; no doubt Diotrephes thought he was guided by the Spirit; so did St John.
It was precisely that dilemma, or so I have tried to suggest from my reading of St John’s Gospel, which makes it difficult to maintain the view of those like Bultmann who see in John and Peter a rivalry. They seem to me to suggest two different approaches in the early Church, whose tendences we see to this day; but they needed each other. Those members of the Johannine community who followed the Apostle never denied their inspiration by the Spirit, but they sought to prove their case by showing that what they believed and practised was authenticated by the Petrine/Apostolic community, whose greater emphasis on order and church discipline may have looked duller, but provided a greater defence against fracturing and schism – provided it was not taken to the point of ossification.
These are the dangers which have haunted the Church from its origins. It is all fine and wonderful to be filled by the Spirit, but if what we think we are told by that inspiration is not in line with what the Church holds, we have two choices: one is to rein in our own tendencies; the other is to dismiss the Church as in some way having fallen away, despite the clear statement of Jesus that it would never be so. There is, I sometimes think, nothing more dangerous to the soul than the belief that what inspires me is right and that means that I can dismiss the billions of Christians who have lived as being, in some way, less guided than I am.
At one end lies the sort of licentiousness which Paul found in Corinth and the errors he found in Galatia; at the other lies the sort of ossification which insists that unless a fellow wears a special costume from a previous age and says a certain set of words in a dead language in a certain way, Christ will not visit us. Both are wrong. Our Faith works best in society, and for us, when Peter and John work together; they needed each other, and their spiritual descendants do to this day.
I agree very much in your position, Geoffrey. For the head and the heart, the rational and the spiritual, our knowledge and experiential encounters, are of no use if not working together. The body is nothing but a lump of flesh without an animating spirit which gives life to the flesh. And the spirit has no focus or restraint without the mind. Together, they inform one another and raise each other to heights they could not attain before. We can will nothing Good until we we have been informed by reason and by the spirit working together in harmony. The body and the spirit need direction and our rationality needs be softened by love and mercy. It is the natural attraction also present in the union of man and wife.
There is a complimentary union in the Church and Peter and John are rather good examples of it, I think. John’s thinking is of a higher order but if not grounded in the humility of obedience to the authority that was Peter he would have built his spiritual edifice on sand rather than rock. And likewise the Church needs be informed by the spiritual likes of St. John so that it exhibits love and mercy and never stops to seek a deeper spiritual relationship with our Lord. It is a balance that is in a sense like a rivalry though it should not be. Fallen man is always intent on preferring one to the other without regard for the violence such a state creates to the Mystical Body of Christ. We will struggle between the two until Christ returns, I’m afraid. In that sense, maybe Bultmann had a point.
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That, my friend, is an excellent set of reflections, and a real justification of my post; I am delighted to have prompted it. Thank you 🙂
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Thanks for the posts. 🙂
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‘the sort of ossification which insists that unless a fellow wears a special costume from a previous age and says a certain set of words in a dead language in a certain way, Christ will not visit us. ”
This language either show the stereotypical ignorant Protestant/Chapel Folk view of the Mass or you’re playing agent provocateur. In either case, for me, it’s in bad taste, knowing you could have done better.
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But if both David, as are my comments about the other end of the spectrum, of course.
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David, I agree with that.
When I think of ossification in the Church, I think that we are speaking of a faith that has lost its eagerness to explore the depths of Christ and has stalled out in its mission of evangelization to the world; not the tenacious holding on to traditions and ritual as they represent the Truths of Christ to the mind and heart and serve as a constant reminder that Heaven is “other-worldly”. Liturgical dress and the beauty of the Mass lets one feel for a moment that the world has dissolved and we have entered into the Holy of holies.
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If the Mass is an ossification then what are all other Non-Catholic services.
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No one was saying the Mass was – although I would say that the view that the only valid Mass is TLM is.
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Yes you did, without re-quoting you, you declared that the was an “ossifaction” of the Mass, by claiming the vestments were to be worn Latin to be said and certain words spoken.
Since you’re not Catholic your opinion of what a valid Mass is in error.
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My meaning was clear to me, sorry it wasn’t to you. There are some Catholics think only TLM is valid – I record that for ossification evidence.
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If I had to go back to the Latin Mass, I wouldn’t go into terminal meltdown. There are as many Catholics that believe that only the Vat II Vernacular Mass is valid. So from your point of view there’s “ossification” at both ends of the spectrum.
A local variation occurred when the choir director changed the “Gloria” to something that no only has no grandeur but is joyless. I pointed out to one of the choir members that instead of him being a Kapplemeister that he’s now a “Dirgemeister.” The new version a complete anathema to me. I refuse to sing it. However, I still sing the old version to myself. I’m not alone in this thinking, but the”Dirgemeister” has the hammer.
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The Mass has taken, and takes, many forms. I find the Greek Orthodox Divine Liturgy most moving.
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{personal audience with the Holy Father]
Mr Sales, you are more correct than you realize. Our Babylonian dress and our use of a dead language is done on purpose. The dress is to impress the infirm of mind faithfull who believe that sets us apart as holy. The weak and shatterd minds of the rank and file catholics need this type of showmanship. We have stomped the spirit out of them with our rituals and worship of the creature, like this Virgin Queen madness that they seem to lap up. We dont want them going to Christ. Second, the dead language is the language of our Master, the founder and chief of the Catholic Church, Satanas. So Mr Sales, enjoy kicking against the pricks. You arent going to enlighten any of the catholic faithful. Our master has his knife stuck in their hearts and he twists it if the faithful hear any Jesus stuff. The mission and charter of our beloved CC is to take as many with us when w go.Uh ha ha…HA HA HAHAHAHAHAHAHHHAHHAH
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. . . and if anyone doubts the reality of Satan, all one has to do is read your comments.
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personal reply from the Holy Father
Mr Fidelis, one of our finest, i must admit. I wish to thank you for your wonderful tireless service to His Majesty.
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Bosco, special revelation: find sock; open mouth; put sock in. Rapture ready 🙂
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I’d rather he rupture!
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Rupture ready Bosco!
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I hope that Bosco has enjoyed spending his thanksgiving in Norfolk.
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I saw that in the paper – maybe Jess needs to beware?
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