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Tableau.GethsemaneThus far we have shown that Jesus wrote no book, but that he established a Church. That Church kept the traditions He established, his disciples spread His message, some in writing, some through their disciples, and some in both ways.  Those disciples clearly wrote about Father, Son and Holy Spirit, as Our Lord had told them to when they baptised; their disciples did the same thing.  To say, as Mushtaq does, that Jesus and the Apostles never talked about ‘three’ is incorrect, as my previous posts have show conclusively.

Lest Mustaq doubt that, let us take some of the passages which St Athanasius, St Cyril of Alexandria and the Cappadocian Fathers wrestled with in order to help us understand how the Trinity is God.

  • John 1:1-18 – Jesus Christ as the divine word/logos, the light and life of the world, the “only-begotten Son” of the Father
  • John 5:17-19 – “But Jesus answered them, ‘My Father is still working, and I also am working.’ / For this reason the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only breaking the sabbath, but was also calling God his own Father, thereby making himself equal to God. / Jesus said to them, ‘Very truly, I tell you, the Son can do nothing on his own, but only what he sees the Father doing; for whatever the Father does, the Son does likewise.’ “
  • John 10:30, 38 – “The Father and I are one.” / “…the Father is in me and I am in the Father.”
  • John 14:8-11a – “Philip said to him, ‘Lord, show us the Father, and we will be satisfied.’ / Jesus said to him, ‘Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and you still do not know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? / Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own; but the Father who dwells in me does his works. / Believe me that I am in the Father and the Father is in me…’ “
  • John 17:1b-5 – “Father, the hour has come; glorify your Son so that the Son may glorify you, / since you have given him authority over all people, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. / And this is eternal life, that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. / I glorified you on earth by finishing the work that you gave me to do. / So now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had in your presence before the world existed.”

In the light of these quotations, for Mushtaq to write:

Did Blessed Jesus hear and speak term Trinity, or its definition {Trinity formula = Father is full and complete God, Son is full and complete God, Holy Spirit is full and complete God, but these are not three gods, but One full and complete God} or even Number “three” to tell about exact number of persons in Triune God? Answer is No.

is wrong. Jesus told us to baptise in the Three Names and spoke repeatedly of the Father and Himself being one, as well as of the coming of the Paraclete.  It was the search to fully understand this which occupied some of the finest Christian minds of the first three centuries after the Resurrection of Jesus.  The notion that there was no ‘orthodoxy’ before that, and that someone who believed God to be a monad was somehow ‘orthodox’ is simply incorrect. So the answer to Mushtaq’s statement that the Unitarians can be considered orthodox is that it is wrong. Who says? That Church founded by Christ. To seek to quote its own book against it as though it is not the authorised interpreter of the Apostolic deposit is, again, incorrect for the reasons given.

In a final post, I will attempt to dispose of Mushtaq’s remaining caveats.