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I was reading an excellent blog post the other day about the trend for young Evangelicals to end up in High Church circles or even to go toward Roman Catholicism. Unlike the author of the piece, I cannot feel any great sense of there being something wrong about the latter. What he has to say appertains to the comments I made the other day about the way in which in my experience, the young folk who confess the faith are very serious indeed about it, because, in this society, it is a precondition of being a Christian; no one takes it up lightly.
It is a mark of the lack of sense of so many evangelical strategies. The idea that what will attract young people to church is what they get in secular society – rock music, and ‘cool stuff’ – is a middle-aged person’s idea of what young people would like, because it was what they liked. But things are so different now than even thirty years ago.
Young Christians know they are in this world, but not of it, and if offered the religious equivalent of Chinese food – lots of it but not very filling – they will drop away. They are looking for something with real nourishment, something which will really sustain them on their long journey. I think that among Jessica’s readers, as with Jess herself, I see this attraction into a form of worship which emphasises the sacred, the special, the community, the need for transcendence; older, sacramental forms of our Faith are well-placed to sustain that need, and when someone told me the other day that his son had become Orthodox, I can’t say I was surprised; the lad always had a sensitivity to high art and music which will have helped him to find his spiritual home in this ancient, and to the English, somewhat exotic, form of our Faith; and how marvellous that he has been able to do so.
What Orthodoxy offers is something which has always appealed to the young – it offers a certainty, it offers the challenge of self-sacrifice, and it is not easy or commonplace. On the occasions I have been into Russian Orthodox Churches I have felt two pulls – one a pull away because of its foreigness – the other a pull towards because of the reverence for Christ and the solemnity of the environment and the sincerity of the worshippers. A three hour service is a commitment indeed, and even my lot would be hard pushed to match that.
It must be hard for the ‘Farver Phils’ of this world to see that what their youthful selves took for a sea-change was simply a fashion of the times. Of course they’ll always been able to point out how ‘popular’ their theology-lite version of our Faith is with those who are lukewarm, and they will for ever have the world on their side. But that is not where young Christians are going.
But, as the Christian Pundit points out, among those young Evangelicals who are properly schooled in the Faith, and it their own traditions, and of whom there is demanded the sacrifice all Christians must give, there is no backsliding or need to go elsewhere. Here, as in the older churches, what matters is proper catechesis, and with that in place, the young can find their way to where the Lord calls them.
My reaction in the 60’s to the “teen friendly” trends in church was that these ‘old fools’ are not acting their age. I saw them as hypocrites and it is my guess the rest of the young folks did as well, judging by their exodus from the pews of the established denominations. It was like a mocking the teen culture and trying to make it fit with them too. It didn’t work on the young but it sure made a lot of old people look and feel pretty silly. People go to church to find something other worldly and when they went to their churches all they found was a bunch of bad rock or folk music that was about as relevant as was Liberace or Mitch Miller. The art and architecture also had to change and look more modern and more hip while the buildings started to look like the bridge of the Starship Enterprise or a school assembly hall. The draw of the ancient and unchangeable was gone – replaced by the fast food equivalent to grandma’s home cooking. The lure of OTHERNESS was replaced with EACH OTHERNESS which turns into more of a group hug for therapy purposes rather than a religious encounter with the Creator of the Universe or the Crucified Christ. That was about the time I said ‘adios’ to Christianity and looked for something more meaningful in my life. At least some of us came back but it doesn’t seem that we have learned much from that experience as we are still operating revolving doors in our churches for the young. How quickly we forget what we were looking for and couldn’t find in the established faiths and now offer it up to our own children and grandchildren as if they will now magically see this as relevant for them.
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That is so true, my friend.
I think your own church has missed out dramatically with the ghastly V 2 changes – and am told, I hope correctly, that the older churches are the ones attractub the young. That does not surprise me.
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It is true, Geoffrey. The pundits said get rid of the old stuffy, smelly old traditional stuff and replace it with sleek modern fun places. The reaction is that nobody feels like they are in a holy space. Kids used to be very well behaved in Church not only because the parenting skills were better but because the Holy space inspired awe in the young as it did with everyone else. Now the pundits have been proved wrong: the Traditional Latin Mass is attractive to the young that are taken to it and they tend to stay in the Church. The other part that was interesting was that in the Diocese of Lincoln, NE, Bishop Bruskewitz got the FSSP to set up shop and he allowed the Traditional Mass all over the place. The result? More young people coming into the priesthood. He had more priests than he could use in his diocese and started sending them to other states as they couldn’t seem to attract any priests at all. Not surprising to me but to these elite thinkers they will not admit their mistake and think maybe they haven’t gone far enough in modernizing the faith. Persistent in their errors to the end, I’m afraid.
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I fear that they long ago erected their egoes into a Gold Calf to be worshipped – still, they, and their time, are passing. 🙂
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Can’t be soon enough for my liking. 🙂
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Time will sweep them away … us too, but I’ll go happily if they leave nothing but an example of what not to do and how not to do it 🙂
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If they only mind not to try to build on the rubble of these failed ideas but go refurbish that which was built on rock. 🙂
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Well, that which was build on the latter is lasting, and can be repaired – the rest is to go 🙂
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Dust to dust, ashes to ashes, I hope. 🙂
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Indeed 🙂
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SF said “ People go to church to find something other worldly and when they went to their churches all they found was a bunch of bad rock or folk music that was about as relevant as was Liberace or Mitch Miller. The art and architecture also had to change and look more modern and more hip while the buildings started to look like the bridge of the Starship Enterprise or a school assembly hall. The draw of the ancient and unchangeable was gone”
Surly the truly ancient is pre Constantine and pre the take over and adoption of former pagan temples as places of Christian worship. In the centuries prior to this there were no specifically Christian church buildings – there were just the homes of believers. I love ‘Starship Enterprise’ and it seems to me the analogy can be with RC Church buildings modelled on the ‘original series’ and those you refer to modelled on ‘the new generation’ both are adaptions far removed from the original faith.
I prefer neither – people in them may find a sense of the other in such highly emotional atmospheres but it is not NECESSARILY God they find.
I prefer the ‘ancient and unchangeable’ based on community and home without religious pretentions and trappings of purple, gold, pomp and ceremony, hierarchy and a power based form of religion.
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I love to be reminded immediately of the timelessness and the old structures did that for me. You knew you were in a building that was not like any other: a holy space, set apart for the worship of the Eternal God. And yes, the drawings of the catacombs and the many reminders of the early martyrs and the home church are all reflected in some way within those hallowed halls. Even the older protestant churches reflected something of this: even when they went the way of simplicity. Simplicity to the point that one does not think of themselves in a worldly utilitarian building but one where only God is spoken of and praised.
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‘It is a mark of the lack of sense of so many evangelical strategies ……’
There is only one ‘strategy’ – to proclaim the gospel of repentance unto remission of sin.
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That’s the message, Jock – but how we get it out there, and how we retain converts, they are the strategies – and many churches have been pretty useless at it.
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…… well, I can’t help you there.
I’m looking at it from the opposite perspective from you. You’re a church man and you want believers to come to church – preferably (from your point of view) the one where you’re an elder.
I’m a believer, I’m an independent Christian; I’m ‘un-churched’. For me, this is a technical point right now – I don’t know the language of the country I’m in, so going to a church service would be pretty useless (I learned Latin at school – so if all sermons were preached in Latin I’d probably be OK).
But even if this were not the case – even if I was an expert in the language, I might well decide not to be involved in any of the churches. After seeing much rubbish and having much rubbish rammed down my throat, I became very particular about which church I was prepared to go to. I heard all the arguments about why I should go ‘you’re a Christian, you seem to know the theology reasonably well – you have to go because your influence will rub off in the way God intended.’ But in the end I simply couldn’t go in a situation where everything on offer was worse than pulling teeth.
I vividly remember the sense of relief the first Sunday that I felt it was OK to abandon churches all together and took a beautiful 15 mile hike in the countryside. Since then I haven’t looked back – I haven’t done any work on Sundays, Sundays have been days of peace and rest where I have simply taken myself right out of the game, gone on long hikes where I don’t have to contend with anybody and this has really given me strong Spiritual nourishment and left me in very good shape after a Sabbath rest, recharged and ready to go for the following week.
A church would really have to be very good and clearly in step with the Spirit to entice me to spend Sundays in any other way.
So I don’t know how to advise you on ‘strategies’. All I can say is that early on, despite a Christian upbringing, I decided against Christianity precisely as a result of the garbage that was being served up ‘for the young people’. This was when I first saw the Christian Union at the University. I was brought back when, by a curious set of circumstances I heard James Philip – and he was talking my language.
What happened was: somebody asked me why they hadn’t seen me at the CU for two years; I explained that it was rubbish – that it was happy clappy nonsense – gave the full account of why I regarded this as a synthetic gospel – and he told me ‘there’s a substantial minority who think the way that you do – and the guy talking this evening speaks your language.’
At his church (Holyrood Abbey) the morning and evening service were carried out properly, no concessions at all were made ‘for the young people’.
It was at that point I fully understood that I hadn’t been reacting against Christianity at all; I had been reacting against the garbage served up ‘for the young people’ (of whom I was one at the time).
So I can’t really help you in your quest for ‘strategies’ to make churches more attractive for believers (that’s what we’re talking about here – much has been done to make church attractive to the unbeliever; these things have invariably turned the believer right off) – all I can say is that all those ‘strategies’ intended to appeal to those in their late teens / early 20’s turned me right off at the time.
Nowadays I’m a bit more mellow – if I were encountering things for the first time now, I might be able to put up with them. But I have strong memories of how they turned me right off back then – and I refuse to tolerate now anything that was instrumental in separating me from God approximately 30 years ago.
(I had given up church-going – and I had decided that the Christian Union was basically not worth bothering about – but I hadn’t at that point given up on God. But I was on the point of it and I was almost there. I was looking at those who were members of the Christian Union, drawing conclusions about what Christianity did to people – and was on the point of renouncing the faith).
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In many ways, Jock, you’re a good example of what has gone wrong – as well as being one of how the Spirit moves in marvellous ways to overcome the problems our sinfulness creates.
I don’t mind terribly which church a fellow goes to – I mind that it shuld be aplace where he gets spiritual nourishment and a place where he is abl to grow in faith with others – it would be a blessed relief to have more of those.
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Jock – sounds like you ran into the same churches I did – only I actually did quit believing. Nothing there of any substance to believe in was my knee-jerk reaction and had I not run into some writings by some rather unusual authors I’d probably still think it was all empty social justice rhetoric and therapeutic hugs. In fact it was so sweet that I think it gave me diabetes. 🙂
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Servus – then I understand you very well (although I don’t agree with you that the Church of Rome is the answer).
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Jock – had you read and studied what I studied you would. We are products of what God put before us or what stumbling blocks Satan devised for us. We are what we are and for a reason: I can only follow what seems to satisfy both my faith and reason.
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Servus – that is very true. God puts us where he does for a purpose – and we have to be faithful to Him.
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And you are both, as others are here, excellent examples of that maxim – so let us rejoice – as brothers and sisters should 🙂
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Indeed so. 🙂
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The miracle, Servus, is Jock came back to the faith – it is just the churches he can’t stand – and we’ve all been there at times, I guess 🙂
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I usually remain there with a few bright moments from year to year. 🙂
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Indeed 🙂 I have sat through some services which merit the word purgatorial.
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I wasn’t going to comment on this, mostly because I agree categorically, and you all know that, so there is little point.
But:
I was making my morning rounds and found this post by a subscriber of mine, and here as well I believe. I don’t know but suspect hat the poster is a young female, judging only by her post and comments, mostly on my blog. I can’t quite call her a friend yet but I do like her (or him, if I’m wrong, no difference really)
I’m going to link to it rather than copy it because it is her/his post, not a comment on my and that is the correct thing to do but, I urge you all to follow the link, I think most will be surprised, and I hope pleased. 🙂
http://apenfullofvinegar.wordpress.com/2013/07/19/why-do-young-people-become-atheists/
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Neo, I think emotions do play a large role in atheism – the writer has hit upon something in a most pithy fashion.
And yes, I know I was off-base for rooting for Notre Dame. My bad. 🙂
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I thought she did really well with it too.
Not real bad, but bad 🙂
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Especially since I would have to choke on the word Catholic to describe that school today. 🙂
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You’ve a point there, my friend. They’re not even ‘small c’ catholic. But that goes back quite a ways, I can’t remember when they really were, and South Bend is my old stomping ground. 🙂
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Between them and Georgetown, I’m not sure which I detest the most. 🙂
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That’s a tough call. How about a basketball game to decide 🙂
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Is there a sport that encompasses blasphemy? That’s what they are best at. Obama could referee along with Pelosi and Biden. 🙂
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Works for me 🙂
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Me too. 🙂
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🙂
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