My friend Keri Williams (whose excellent blog I recommend highly) pointed me to a link which made the prefect even of holiday topic. According to a recent survey, more people in the UK believe in aliens than believe in God. My immediate reaction was rather similar to that of my co-author Chalecdon when the hymn ‘Shine Jesus Shine’ is played in his church.
The I looked at it, and the ‘research’ was commissioned by a video-game company, and it was only of 1300 or so Britons, but it is, we are assured, representative of British opinion:
Nick Pope, formerly of the British Government’s Ministry of Defense UFO Project, said he believes the survey results. “Just 20 years ago, religion was a huge part of life in the U.K., and this shows just how much attitudes have changed,”
Well, that last part is certainly right, alas. Quite how accurate it is to say that more believe in aliens than in God might be a moot point, but that belief in God has declined, is declining, and is set to go on declining seems absolutely plain. Yet, in the most recent national census, more than 37 million people in England and Wales identified themselves as Christian, and there are more than 184 ‘religious affiliations’ listed. So there is some disjunction somewhere, as that is about two thirds of the people in the country.
Some of the discrepancy comes from the fact that census forms ask you to put your religion, and many seem to write in ‘Christian’ without ever darkening the doors of a church. But to me, in an optimistic frame of mind, that suggests that there is no great opposition to the Faith, simply an ignorance of it. It suggests that however many people believe in aliens, there are more with a residual belief in God, even if they do not know much about Him or what He does and is.
Having committed myself to some work in evangelisation, that is an encouragement. But it does raise a question to which I have no answer. Why have our churches let it reach this state? What have they been doing – or rather, what have they not been doing – and why?
When I read of the work of the great John Wesley, and of other preachers of the past, I wonder where they are today, and where their latter-day successors have vanished to? Is it simply that our modern churches feel too unconfident in their own beliefs that they do not try to evangelise for Christ? If they remain on the backfoot, hoping for some hole and corner existence where they are allowed to eke out their lives in peace, that is what they will get – if they are lucky. But how unlike the Apostles is that?
Andrew and John did not know what baptism they would have to undergo in Christ, but they followed Him and drank of that cup. St. Paul endured all for His Lord. We endure so little in the West, and think, sometimes, we are persecuted. We aren’t, not really, because no one takes us seriously enough to do that to us.
There is a great mission field out there in the UK – and all those people who believe in aliens are part of it.
neenergyobserver said:
The other thing to keep in mind here, given the so-called Christians (and in truth real ones as well) there’s really nothing preventing one from believing in both, or neither, or one and not the other or vice versa.
As to your main question, I wish I knew.
And yes our persecution (I hesitate to even use the word) is so mild that if we didn’t believe in slippery slopes it would be laughable.
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JessicaHof said:
Indeed, nothing at all – and the aliens don’t even proselytise 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
Only is Sweden and only if your name is von Daeniken 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
Indeed 🙂 x
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neenergyobserver said:
I’ll admit that the book, like the da Vinci code was a fun read and I learned some things from it although not on point.
A flawed thesis often works that way, in my experience anyway. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, I read it when I was a young teenager, but didn’t realise it was meant to be true 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
My flakier sister, who also managed to support McGovern, seemed to actually think there might be something in it.
Oh, I just figured it out, The Wesley’s, and Luther and all those guys, They were aliens. 😛 🙂 (Wish I had the idiot emoticon for that comment.
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JessicaHof said:
Certainly alien to so many modern churchmen 🙂
I can recall wondering about the photos in those books – an impressionable teen! 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
There are some mysteries in there, and I’ve never seen any particularly satisfying explanations for some of them either. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
Me neither 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
But we know there were giants in the world, maybe that has something to do with it. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
Could be. There is certainly more than we know.
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neenergyobserver said:
Yep, there sure, and I suspect it meant to be that way, to keep our minds sharp, if nothing else.
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, we can easily become complacent, alas 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
That we can far to easily 🙂
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Servus Fidelis said:
Tell C that I have not had the displeasure of hearing that so-called hymn “Shine Jesus Shine” but that after reading the words, I felt a bit nausea.
As to those who would go into the world and evangelize, I think we do have some great preachers among us: the unfortunate part is that they are marginalized or shut up. We have in Greenville, SC a great priest (he has a blog you should check out – http://fathernewman.blogspot.com/) by the name of Fr. Jay Scott Newman. Unfortunately, every time he speaks forcefully about the real truths of the Church there are complaints and then a smack down by the Bishops. The same happened to Mother Angelica not that many years ago on EWTN when she spoke against a Bishop and had to make a public apology. It seems that we have too many factions among our own priests and Bishops to effect a real evangelization. The article I just put up has a quote by our Pope that is speaking of the churchmen themselves who stand in need of evangelization. When we have that kind of problem we are in need of some Divine Intervention to get the Church right and then work on getting the world right.
I have seen similar polls about peoples beliefs in aliens, ghosts, zombies, vampires and the rest. Those polls also showed that there is more belief in these things that in the teachings of a Church. People tend to put down a tag of Christianity when asked but, alas you are right, it is only an easy identifier that is more an indication of what their parents or grandparents believed that what they themselves believe.
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JessicaHof said:
If you have not had the ‘pleasure’ then avoid it, is C’s advice – and mine.
I do sometimes wonder whether Bishops are more trouble than a help – they seem quite keen on their own positions, but not so much on the discomfort of trying to win over converts.
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Servus Fidelis said:
I think it is this notion of presenting the faith in a “kinder and gentler” way to quote the first President Bush. In other words, a wishy washy faith of little worth except to make nice talk when having tea.
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, that’s an odd one, as properly understood it is already kind and gentle – it just insists on calling sin, sin, and us to repentance.
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Servus Fidelis said:
But that is what is now considered unkind. We must bite our tongue and say that sin is not always sin: especially for the ones who are comfortable in their sins.
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, wouldn’t want to shake the poor dears out of their complacency!
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Servus Fidelis said:
Of course not, it wouldn’t be ‘welcoming’ to them.
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JessicaHof said:
Wouldn’t want to hurt their feelings now, would we?
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Servus Fidelis said:
No. And if you read my second comment to Mr. V. you will see how yesterday I was removed from teaching both RCIA and Inquiry to new aspiring Catholics. I am getting quite used to this by now.
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JessicaHof said:
I had just reached that – and was so shocked I hardly know what to say. It is like they really just want some kind of mushy wishy-washy mess rather than proper teaching.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Indeed so and the worst is that busy bodies and gossips abound and consider the parish their own domain. I was an outsider who dared trod on their turf.
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JessicaHof said:
Of all the things that make me despair about churches, it is the busy- body factor which rates highest.
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Servus Fidelis said:
You cannot sneeze in a parish anymore than someone spreads rumors and gossip about one another. It is a scandal but a normal failing of human nature I’m afraid.
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, but unfortunately there’s such a lot of it in parishes.
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Servus Fidelis said:
We had a church secretary that would gossip about confidential information which she would overhear being discussed with the priest. It’s truly scandalous. I’m not sure how long my wife will be able to put up with this she is getting pretty stressed out with all this foolishness.
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JessicaHof said:
I feel for her, and you. Can you stand back a while?
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Servus Fidelis said:
Oh I never try to create problems for her. So I have said nothing and will not so much as speak with the pastor about this. It is better that way. We will just let it disappear into the fog of confusion. It will soon be forgotten all together I’m sure.
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JessicaHof said:
I do hope so, dear friend 🙂
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Servus Fidelis said:
Me too, because my wife is quite good at what she does and extremely orthodox. I just hope she doesn’t come under any pressure to start bending her truths. I think that would be the final straw. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
I hope and pray not. 🙂 x
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Servus Fidelis said:
As do I. 🙂 They will lose someone very special if they do.
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JessicaHof said:
I just don’t understand it at all – sometimes I do wonder about some folk!
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Servus Fidelis said:
I have quit wondering. It just proves to me what we learn in Genesis: we are fallen man. We are drawn to concupiscence and every sin known to man.
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JessicaHof said:
So true, alas.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Makes the redemptive suffering and death of Christ so much more unexplainable as a mystery. Our miserable state seems so unlikely to deserve a Savior at all.
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JessicaHof said:
Indeed – the mystery of Grace is even stronger at such times 🙂 x
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Servus Fidelis said:
Tis a mystery indeed by fair lady. 🙂 x
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JessicaHof said:
We are so fortunate 🙂 x
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Servus Fidelis said:
Amen. We are so. 🙂 x
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neenergyobserver said:
Yes, it lends a lot of point to C’s contention about hymns written after 1940. Then again why do we need any after Luther and Wesley, other than maybe Beethoven and Handel anyway..
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, I am afraid so – but that one seems especially horrid 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
Yes, it is, I’ve heard it once or twice to my displeasure as well. Then again it makes Kum ba Yah seem OK.
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JessicaHof said:
I shan’t mention that one in C’s presence 🙂 x
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neenergyobserver said:
A wise move, I’d warrant. And if your wise (of which I have no doubt) don’t mention it favorably in mine either. 🙂 x
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JessicaHof said:
There should be a special landfill site for such hymns 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
When I was doing hazmat work, oh about 30 years ago, we had some stuff that to dispose of it we were going to have to place it in 55 gal drums and then encase them in not less than a foot of concrete and sink them in the middle of the ocean. That might be appropriate.
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JessicaHof said:
Sound right to me 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
Make me wonder what that client ever did with that stuff, they didn’t like our solution, didn’t blame them, really. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
🙂 x
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neenergyobserver said:
🙂 x We did have one other idea. Pack it in an old semi trailer with Budweiser painted on it and leave at a truck stop in a bad neighborhood. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
That would be very ecological – Algore would approve 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
Yeah but, we were afraid the State of Indiana wouldn’t. 🙂
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Servus Fidelis said:
Also read the 2nd to last comment I made to Mr. V. here: http://servusfidelis.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/does-the-catholic-church-tell-you-how-to-vote-truth-and-charity-forum/#comments
It shows how it stops some of us who would like to evangelize and are prevented by keeping things nice. It is Catholicism light and I’m afraid that the progressives have set the tone within the Church.
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neenergyobserver said:
SF, I hate to say it but, I’m not very surprised. This nonsense has been going on in my church since (at least) the 60’s. The ELCA is marginally, but only marginally, better than the UCC. I’m still inside but I’m beginning to consider either the MS or Confessional Lutheran Churches, although one has to be careful, some were screwed up by Prussia when predestination stuck it nose in the tent from the Reformed church.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Same here Neo. I think the watershed moment for the Catholic Church was the Second Vatican Council and introduction of the New Mass. It started a landslide of progressives getting intimately involved in our local parishes and dioceses.
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JessicaHof said:
The difficulty is that the so-called progressives seem not to be very keen on anything resembling traditional Christianity.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Not at all and they want to keep it that way. They will go to the gallows to stop the re-emergence of traditional Catholic teaching.
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JessicaHof said:
It is, as you know, that element which is not keen on my converting, so I am very inclined to agree.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Oh I knew that when you explained the situation. It is a hard battle and we shall earn our battle scars in the fight. But like John Paul Jones famously said, “I am not begun to fight!”
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JessicaHof said:
Not yet we haven’t 🙂 x
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Servus Fidelis said:
The Battle Royale is a lifetime struggle and the worst of it lies ahead I’m afraid. We’ll just have to give it our best. 🙂 x
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Servus Fidelis said:
Maybe the aliens still have an air of mystery about them that attracts adherents. After the atheists have thoroughly debunked God they have set out to explain how many billions of civilizations there are out there in space and so the alien is mystery that is believable while God is a mystery that is considered unbelievable.
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, indeed, credulity knows no boundaries 🙂
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Servus Fidelis said:
I have met a few pastors that may be from another planet; I’m not sure. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
Yes, probably the same planet as some I have met 🙂
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Servus Fidelis said:
They do speak in strange tongues that are alien to me with logic that is beyond my comprehension. 🙂
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JessicaHof said:
Well, anyone who thinks your blog is an attack on your church is an alien to logic 🙂
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Servus Fidelis said:
Kind of you to say so Jess. I try, but sometimes I may go over the line as well. But then again, there is always the comment box for people to set me straight. That is the beauty of the blog. 🙂
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neenergyobserver said:
Ah well, you haven’t nailed your 95 complaints to the door of the cathedral yet and I pray you never get to that point, it seems that your church is starting to return strangely from the top but return still, to its historical roots. I Pray it is so even as I do for mine as well.
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Servus Fidelis said:
Yes Neo, there are some great and positive signs despite all the confusion in the ranks. We were blessed with 2 magnificent Popes in a row who are quite aware of the situation and are beginning to turn the huge ship toward the goal once again.
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Laura said:
Amen!! I couldn’t agree more and wonderfully put. It seems that we need to start acting more like aliens and strangers in this world for Christ! – and less hiding away so no one will think we’re strange… 😀 Viva la Evangelisation! (Yeah, that’s probably not a thing but I like it.)
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Tom Mcewen said:
If the shepherds are confused, how we the sheep to know where to go. It is a great sin. I pray that the Holy Father will be given enough time to plant his standard in the hearts of the bishops. Is the Holy Spirit in the Church? From the great Popes we have received in John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI, I think I see the finger of the Lord drawing the Church forward. I just pray we will have time.
As for Aliens, it is God’s universe and he made out of love for life, What Father has a small heart for his children. What can be more alien then the heart of an Atheist?
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