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One of the ‘essentials’ of Christianity then, considered from an historical perspective, has been the need for a source of authority. The reasons are not far to seek.
From the beginning, as we have seen, individuals took it upon themselves, even in Christ’s own presence, to say what was and was not meant when He spoke. Satan plays on our egotism and self-will, as he did on those of our first parents; why should he find new tricks when we keep falling for the old one?
If that is one trick, then there is another which is equally successful, and it is one Our Lord Himself criticised frequently – it is the love of laying excessive burdens on the faithful. There is something in the mind-set of those of us attracted to religion which loves to codify, to elaborate, to set out in detail how this or that or the other should be done. Christ told these ‘hypocrites’ what He thought of them often – Matthew 23: 1-12 is only one of many such criticisms of such behaviour by Jesus. (Matthew 6, 15 and 16 are full of such rebukes). But it comes naturally to men in positions of authority to lay down the law.
Thus, is it the case that at the same time as using their authority to guard and define the deposit of Apostolic truth, Church leaders have (literally) anticipated about the equivalent of phylacteries? I love ancient liturgies, but I can’t get myself to the point of arguing with Christians who prefer something newer – is that really what Christ meant we He told us to love one another? If not caring enough about a second epiclesis means I am going to Hell, well I will be seeing a lot of other folk there. Christ had nothing to say on that matter, as He did on the subject of the filioque clause although He took a very hard line on those who called their brother a fool; this seems not to have stopped Christians calling each other worse that ‘fool’ over matters on which neither Our Lord nor His Apostles passed an opinion.
For a Faith founded on a call to forgiveness and humility as the road to redemption, Christianity’s leaders seem to have had a great deal of trouble with this two qualities, and absolutely none with throwing anathemata at each other – which given Our Lord’s strictures, has always struck me as odd.
As much as individuals need to curb their tendency towards pride and self-will, so too do individual leaders. Here, it seems to me, that this present Pope and his predecessor have served well. I am aware that some Catholics were affronted by some of John Paul II’s more ecumenical gestures, and by his apologies for things like the treatment of Jews and the sack of Constantinople in 1204, but in that how much there was of humility and repentance, and what an example he set to others. The same is true of Pope Benedict with groups like the SSPX, or with the founding of the Ordinariates to allow Anglicans to come into the Church corporately.
Yes, some purists are shocked and clearly want converts to be bound with as many yokes as they can bear, but that was not the way of Christ, and it is not the way of this successor of St. Peter. One of the oldest of Papal titles was ‘Patriarch of the West’, and, whatever arguments there are over the meaning of ‘primacy’ and the position of the Pope, no-one can deny that he was, and remains, the Primate of the West, and of its missions globally.
That the leader of two billion Catholics, the largest Christian Church by far, can show such restraint and such humility, and such care, is a clear enough sign:
11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
Crumbs, Jess, do you ever make a duff post?
(Rhetorical question, don’t answer! In my opinion, not yet.)
I have been pondering exactly the same issues myself just recently.
Intellectualism is such a rare talent, and yet it sometimes seems that that is all the Church strives for in its followers.
I believe Christ exhibited a seriously serious sense of humour in His mission. The Gospels are full of it. Calling the almighty pharisees “hypocrites” (actors, pretenders) in front of their audience is just plain ribaldry!
Calling Himself the Good Shepherd, instantly labels humanity as dumb sheep! What a bloomin’ cheek!
Naming His disciples “sons of thunder” put them in their place like a comedian defusing arrogant hecklers.
There are many other examples.
Humour shares its root with humility and humus (soil). The God/workman tried to teach us that the way to Heaven was by continuous belittling of oneself.
The way to understand is to stand under, when everything becomes clear. To understand all is to forgive all, to forgive all is to be a child of God.
This was the way the truth and the life prescribed by the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
St Francis, the poverello, saw this, and this is why he is the greatest Christian Saint.
St Francis, pray for us .
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Thank you so much. I really appreciate the encouragement. I do wonder why people don’t see Our Lord’s sense of humour?
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I would definitely recommend some Walker Percy novels/essays, if you haven’t heard of him. Likewise Flannery O’Connor, though her stories are more dark and… “disturbing,” there remains a kind of humor (More like a poking fun at [sinful] people).
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For contemporary Catholic humor, I mean. (I wish I could go back to edit my comments… lol)
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No problem my friend 🙂 Thank you for the suggestions.
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There is a place in the Church for those who care about minutiae -just as there is a need in secular society for actuaries and accountants! If the Church is healthy, it uses those talents and places them in the larger perspective of love. (And I agree with you that both Blessed John Paul II and Benedict XVI are good examples of how to do this.)
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Thank you. Yes, the Body of Christ needs the talents we all bring 🙂
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Bravo! This post is something akin to what I have been harping on recently. Kudos.
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Mant thanks 🙂
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“Crumbs, Jess, do you ever make a duff post?”
That is a very good question, do you? Not that I’ve seen. Another great one, and if I’m not misreading your thrust, and I don’t think I am, you are, as usual, exactly correct.
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Thank you my dear friend. I am blushing at all the supportive comments – and extremely grateful to everyone here. It is your support which gives me the confidence to keep going 🙂
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Yes, well, it’s very attractive when you blush, and the praise is deserved, and why we are here. 🙂
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Thank you – just back and catching up.
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I figured that.
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I’ll email 🙂
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As you can, dear friend, I’ll be here. 🙂
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Just posted 🙂
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🙂
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Yes, Blessed Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI were/are very great Popes, and it upsets me when I hear criticisms of some of Pope JP II’s actions from Catholics. (Criticisms from non-Catholics are not so hurtful, as unfortunately many of us Catholics are more used and hardened to them…… not on Jess’s blog though ;-).)
Pope John Paul II is indeed a hero for so many Christians. Through his humility, openness, and repentance for past sins in the name of the whole Catholic Church, he opened the doors of the hearts of so many who previously had been hostile to Catholicism.
He was kind, understanding and altruistic, yet he never faltered in teaching the FULLNESS of the deposit of Faith, however ‘burdensome’ that might appear to some.
He taught – as the Catholic Church has ever taught – that abortion (under any circumstances), contraception, divorce and remarriage (without a prior annulment), women ‘priests’, gay ‘marriage’, stem cell research et al., were sinful and wrong.
To live the life of a Catholic is not always easy; it is very often the steep and narrow path…….. but it is the one that leads to Eternal Life.
There is also great joy, and an inexplicable sense of ‘peace of heart’ in turning away from one’s willful human desires and temptations, to turn in obedience to the Church’s divine teaching, however tough it might seem in some circumstances.
Don’t forget the words: “He therefore that shall break one of these least commandments, and shall so teach men, shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven. But he that shall do and teach, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” (Matthew 5:19)
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Yes, yes,I agree so much. My road to the Church was through the Blessed John Paul, and he, it was, who made me realise how wrong the ideas I had inherited from my childhood must be. I remember thinking that if this man was not a Christian, no one was – from there all else followed 🙂
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There certainly seems to be something afoot with these past 2 popes who seem to be akin to a shepherd attempting to gather in all the flocks scattered around the world. We’ll see how many can hear the shepherd’s voice.
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Indeed, my friend – inspiring Christian leaders 🙂
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This is about st bosco and his belief that he is saved and authority. When I read what he believed I thought of math Aristotelianism -This view says that numbers exist as concepts. So we can’t see them in the real world but they still exist because they exist in our minds. But what would happen if there were no people in the world, and no other intelligent life which could count? Would numbers still exist? This unknown of the simple things we use to count our change, but may not exist outside our heads brings to the mind of God. Bosco can not know the mind of God, we can know him by his attributes, but his mind no, we are too limited and also in a spiritual unlimited. Bosco seems to me to violate the first commandment, Thou shalt have none other gods before me. Because bosco had made a god, a god made in bosco image.
His god is a god of Ju-ju, it is a god that if you hold your mouth a certain way, God must do what you want, By holding your mouth a certain way you are saved forever and God has no longer has power to change that fact. That one fact removes the power of omniscient which God possesses in the most perfect knowledge but he is not free to act on that knowledge. The Divine will like the Divine intellect is made subject to human will, in case bosco’s. Divine Providence which deals with man’s salvation or damnation in the present with takes place in time, is made void by bosco. It was exercised once then passes from God’s control. God is named I Am who I Am, God is the creator of space and time, this is important, God is not the slave of time he is Times master, He lives outside of time, he does not change, but bosco makes God slave of an event where bosco moves the life long path of salvation and sin into a single point in time. Predestination, is the fact that God can step into the stream of time at any point and step out. He know if you followed His (God’s) will or your own, this he knows because he stepped into the stream of time when your time of free will has passed. This is not a violation of predestination, protestants think of God existing in time. It is God’s will that be saved, it at the end is act of your will, God may wish it otherwise, but your will is free. I have the Church to warn me and guide me and I can not accept a Ju-ju god.
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I’m tempted to simply respond “bozo is not savd, only I is savd” — but actually, I think you’re overconceptualising his errors.
He rejects the validity of baptism, ergo he rejects Christianity in toto.
bozo is quite simply a pagan.
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Christ life says, ‘Do what I do’, he did not need baptism but we do and he did it for us, to show what we must do. Baptism is a spiritual event that has a physical presence, the reception of the Holy Spirit was make known by the sound of the rushing wind and crowns of fire. If you claim to hold the Holy Spirit then you too should have a physical event, The baptism of water is both a physical and a spiritual event they are twins you can not have one without the other.
For Bosco information; the church holds a treasure that is Holy and makes the church Holy and that is the Eucharist. The Apostles and the church fathers from the beginning held it to be the body and blood and divinity of Jesus the Christ.
If Bosco does not believe that the Catholic church, is not the church of our Lord, then all he has to do is disprove this treasure, that this is the true presence. In the fall of this Eucharist is the fall of the church, in the error of the Eucharist is the error of the church, if the Eucharist is false then the church is false. Prove these things and the church is destroyed. But if it is true, then the church is true. Before the bible was the church, the bible came from the church not the church from the bible. The bible is a fruit of the authority of the church given by the holy spirit. If the tree is corrupt then the fruit is corrupt. The Holy Spirit is not a spirit of confusion, the church is given the holy spirit and it is not confused, it has taught one thing from the beginning, and the same teaching until the ending of age.
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That the leader of two billion Catholics, the largest Christian Church by far
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
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Indeed, and no one has ever said every Catholic is bound for Heaven, or all non- Catholics for hell. But do read what I wrote yesterday and Sunday, Bosco.
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Ok ill read them. Ive been without a computer for 4 days where i was workin. Most of my replies dont get posted. Whats wrong? I keep getting reset messages
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That’s kind Bosco. I don’t understand why some of your comments get through and some don’t. 🙂
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Test…None of my posts to brother Tom or Jabba are going thru. Im not avoiding you guys. I see what you say.
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Brother Tom, Ive said it 100 times, i just follow the shepherd, i dont invent the shepherd.It seems that since i dont bow in front of graven images and stare at golden trinkets, im a lost soul. How refreshing.
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Nobody called you a “lost soul”, your soul is in the hands of God, and not in those of any mortal person but yourself — and though you’re obviously not inventing the shepherd, you’re still denying the very basics of what He’s teaching, and you’re running off on your own instead of staying with His flock, and you’re spreading lies and falsehoods about Faith, religion, spirituality, and salvation.
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I follow the shepherd, that the Lord that appointed to feed his sheep, the sheep of hired shepherd is not his but the Lord of the whole flock. The shepherd that feeds the sheep feeds me the words of the shepherd, as the Lord commanded him. Should he disobey the Lord and not feed his sheep? If you believe in the Bible why do you not do as the Lord commands. The Church is the pillar and foundation of truth” (1 Tim. 3:15), From out of apostles and the founding fathers come the bible to feed the shepherd who feeds the church, the first eleven bishops of went to their deaths before giving up the truth of the lord, look to Polycarp a man who knew John. The bible is like a one legged milking stool, we as the Ethiopian in the chariot need an apostle to explain to us what the scripture means, there are three legs to the church with three legs come stability. You think that for 1500 years the church was dead, and it was reborn? Did Christ lie? The Church was given the full gifts of the holy spirit, not I nor you. You have 20,000 churches saying they are guided by the holy spirit and wander around lost. Have you ever been to Mass, the service is full of the bible, but the old tells of the new and the new tells of the old, together they tell of the Lord and his promise, whatever question you have, for 2000 years men have had the same questions and the treasures of answers has come. If the bible is good fruit then the church which is the tree and pillar of truth is also good fruit of the word of our Lord. Be humble and not ask the accusers of the church for their truth, be a man and girth up your loins and demand of the church and they will answer.
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True brother Jabba, you didnt call me a lost soul. You called me a pagan. Say, doesnt the cult you belong to have costume holymen who say incantations that bring god down from heaven, in temples full of graven images, where the faithful bow befor these images and dress them in cloths and put gold crowns on their heads? And rub babylonian beads while the priests in babylonian fish hats watch with glee? You call me a pagan? How utterly priceless.
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St Bosco – you do not truly believe this stuff do you. The costume holyman is wearing the common dress of the late roman or medieval time, If something like music is beautiful you would like to hear it again. Beauty comes from of God and we share with God when we share beauty with one another. I find the mass beautiful. The bible is quite clear that the Eucharist is the body of the Lord, and if you trust in science as your touchstone, there is proof from the World Heath Organization on the component parts of the body of our Lord. You live in the world of the written word, but very little of the world has had the privilege since the beginning of the world, what are statues but the word for those who can not read but can see. I do not worship the photos of those I love, but it calls to mind moments of true happiness, why should I not have things in my life that call to me of love. We are both physical and spiritual, and since God created us for a physical body it must be good, a mother who touches her child, heals her child, there is more in touch then physical there can be love, there can be God. I am a Catholic because Jesus is in the church until the ending of the age.
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http://catholicismpure.wordpress.com/2012/09/01/how-to-argue-with-a-madman-from-gk-chesterton/
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Hello brother Tom.Do i believe what i say? It is all true, whats not to believe? Catholis dress the statues, bow to them, burn incense in front of them, the priests say incantations and bring god down from heaven. Do i believe this? Why not, its what you see in any catholic church. Point out what was in error, please and thank you.
I dont know about you, but for me the CC lost any credibility with its inquisition against bible believers. The bible was just taken off the list of banned books by the CC about 50 yrs ago.
To the good people who follow this blog, the catholics smile in your face and say what a great reply you made, but behind that they believe you have not salvation, because according to catholic infallable unchangeable doctrine only catholics can have salvation. Catholics are compelled to believe all dogma.Thats why no matter what i say about idolatry(bowing befor images) the catholics dont want to hear it, simply because im a hellbound pagan, as my old friend Jabba puts it.
The second command is clear; do not make graven images and do not bow to them. Fancy words about the picture of Mom wont make that go away. Any way, you ninys who use that pic of Mom arguement…..Mom wasnt made by human hands. Honor you mom and pop. Another pesky command of god.
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bozo, you really do take the biscuit — but you’ve bitten off FAR more than you can chew if you imagine that your heresies might fall on fertile ground in this place.
but behind that they believe you have not salvation, because according to catholic infallable unchangeable doctrine only catholics can have salvation
Can’t resist, sorry :
you is not savd bozo, only I is savd
You really do have an UTTER lack of even the most basic religious feeling, in your simultaneous declarations that only certain categories of persons are “saved”, whilst spreading some utter lies about the contents of the Catholic doctrines of salvation.
NO NO NO, the Church does NOT teach that only Catholics will be saved, and the *conservatives* (not traditionalists) who claim that are spreading false doctrines.
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Jabba, I am glad you have put Bosco right on that. I am trying to put together something for tomorrow in response to his request – so let us, perhaps, see how that goes and try to help – if, as he says, he is open to argument.
You are such a good apologist my friend, but I am not sure Bosco will listen to any Catholic – but let us see. I’ll appreciate any comments you can make tomorrow – all help gratefully received 🙂
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come on brother Jabba, …There is no salvation outside the catholic church…..this is taught all thru catholic dogma. The new modern catholics want to distance themselfs from this embarrassing bit of dogma. heck, i dont blame you. Heres my fave catholic poem;
When in a coffer a coin rings
Out of pergatory a soul springs
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Nope.
It’s extra Ecclesiam nulla salus NOT extra Catholicam Ecclesiam nulla salus
The Church in the doctrine is the Universal, Celestial Church, which includes all of the saved — not just the Catholic one.
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Hmnn..Our Creator’s sense of humor…He made us didn’t He? I’ve been told He did that to testify to His glory by theologians who should know if anyone does. But that seems so obviously silly, given our various ridiculous characteristics, that it seems likelier He did it for His Amusement. “Man, proud man…”
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Well, we are certainly a stiff-necked and proud lot 🙂
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